30mm ?

[PJDeluhery]

Personally, I have nothing against 30mm figures; in fact, I like them and have many in my gray army. The problem for me is that I can't SEE them to pant them. So I don't think any one here is saying 30s are not desirable; but the question is: what will sell? The hobby is getting grayer and with that comes vision problems.
 
If it's a "perfect figure" or set that few will buy, then we have wasted our time. I think 45 mm is a good compromise - still too small for me but at least I can find them on the workbench!

[alfsboy]

I started painting flats in the early  70's for the shop Under two Flags  and my first Kulmbach was in 75 .I have to admit there was not a lot of 'connoisseur" painting around  which surprised me asI thought there must be .In  fact many said my figures were too well painted and not of interest to collectors which seemed a bit odd !!.  I thought there was vast room for improvement in my painting ..I met Jim Woodley and kept painting but always 30 mm .I sold some of them to pay for my trip to Kulmbach in 82 and the beer  ..I then stopped painting them and have done nearly all figure sculpting since  for others .Now I am back on flats ,relearning ,and still its 30mm though I made an exception for The Robin Hood  threesome .I love the scenes available in 30mm . Although I have mainly been painting individual items up to now a couple of sets are about halfway through
      .I will get some of those Sholz sets of the retreat,long on my list  and some battle of Murten figures as well and also a set of crusaders from Zinnprinzessin.I love set  scenes ad 30''s fit the bill .I can still paint down to that size but like others I will  move up in size as and when but fantasy holds no interest for me so maybe I am a 30mm purist .which is probably my only stab at purity for anything
Martin

[Michael_43]

Hallo friends of flats,
several years ago when TV´s were available for everybody people said radio´s will die out.
I think nobody knows if 30 mm flats die out or not.

There are a lot of new 30 mm flats but not all editors show them in "Die Zinnfigur" because there are a lot of other
flat magazines in Germany and some producers don´t want to pay tax for their hobby.

I remember Fritz Menz in the 80´s who told me about his problems with tax. At these times there were no internet in Germany.
And today you´ll be a professional seller on ebay if you sell the same product 10-20 times. Then you must verify that
you have a strange hobby...

Best regards

Michael

[gerhard gady]

In the past there were flat figure collectors - now there are painters.
It was a collectors  Hobby, now it is a painters competition. Who paints best. I dont think that there will be 30 mm figures in future.
In the 80s there was between 1000 to 1500 new flat figures presented in the Klio Magazine a year. Editors like Mr. Dangschat,
Mr. Wohlmann and others editet sometimes more than a hundred new 30 mm flats a year.  When I now see the Pictures of the
competitions there are always the same twenty or so figures. All painted in artist manner.
I think it is sad, that the old "art" of 30 mm figures is vanishing. But times change.
The set idea was for collectors and builders of Dioramas. Painters Need only one figure. (The same at the round figures)
Best wishes
Gerhard

[Brian]

Having talked to a few editors and their idea is that the bigger figures are what is selling, there are so many good figures in 30mm they feel they can not compete,  the likes of    Alexander Baden, Segom, Western and GE who produce some of the best "new" 30mm figures you can get.

The projects we have done in the past have all been 30's and all I have received is beautiful painted little gems, some say it was hard and others say how good it was to paint a little guy again!! but all had fun

So is it the set idea that's putting painters off, the idea of 6 to 26 figures to paint scares them of.
Would it be better if a series of 30mm "group" figures were made, again on the lines of Glens idea?     

[fesak_j]

if I can say something, ..... I guess the problem is not about attractiveness of sets or single figures in time periods of history. I found some sets to buy with star wars theme, how the sale worked?   


Everybody feel it different,  I tried couple of 3Ds but it did not give me that much pleasure as 2Ds. Painting 2Ds is for me more about an art than 3Ds or nowadays popular 28mm play figures. It is hard to compare it in that way.


In the near future I will paint for sure polish winged hussar, german death hussar and than something from pirates theme   


I would welcome maybe some tattoo sheets formed into 2Ds from Sailor Jerry(not exactly pin-ups only)    or other tattoo artists?  or busts of tattooed sailors?

[Nicholas Ball]

After painting Robin Hood, I now prefer the 40-45mm size

On saying this I am back dabbling with the Mohr Broom seller set, a bit of a hard slog after the bigger sizes, but quite enjoyable all the same

[Brian]

(still want to do a Vegas showgirl. Mmmmm, feathers...)   had a few set's of them and sold them

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[Brian]

Had no intention of doing a set of 30mm but reading Glens and Willies post there may be something in it.
As Mark said it's just getting them on the first step so the idea of  "Introduction to Painting Flats. Include a small B&W pamphlet" could work!!

Them Dr Who figures might just happen 

I'll have to have a think

[Glen]

OK, I'm back...


So, the gist of it is 2D wants to produce a 30mm set of six figures. It is a given that the pieces must be well designed, well engraved (no distortion, no perspective issues, no soft detail, etc.), and well cast.
The big question is what to produce. What will sell in sufficient quantities that at least the initial investment will be recovered in a reasonable amount of time? All of the comments have validity, but - and this is a big but - there is a wide variety of interests on these boards. One only has to look at the Gallery to see that. If only one interest segment is catered to, then only that segment will have any interest in the pieces, hence any hope of sales will rest largely on that interest group's shoulders. Everyone else go sit down...
Perhaps a new approach is in order.
How about a six-piece introductory set of two historical, two fantasy, and two sci-fi/other subjects. Market and sell the set as an Introduction to Painting Flats. Include a small B&W pamphlet (the previous discussion on that seems to have died as far as I know). Push them at shows, via mail order, and on this site. Make an effort to market them outside the UK and EU. I'm sure many folks on these boards - myself included - will buy a set, paint them, and post them on this site and other figure sites if for no other reason to promote the hobby.
There are any number of historical subjects to choose from, from colorful to drab from ancients to modern. Fantasy wizards, warriors, sorceresses, dwarfs, fairies, elves, etc. Space troopers, aliens, showgirls, Lili Marlene under a lamppost, maids, musicians. By all means, do something that's been done before, just change the pose and costume (where applicable), and do it better. Likewise for subjects that have been done and are no longer available.
Discuss.
Glen
(still want to do a Vegas showgirl. Mmmmm, feathers...)

[marko]

Much the same debate is going on in model planes with 1/72 becoming a less popular category and 1/48 scale and particularly 1/32 scale becoming large draws.  (There are now 1/32 scale B-25, B-17, Ju-88 and Gotha bomber kits.  Beautiful yes but, enough to strain anyones' display space.)  The belief there is much the same with modelers getting older with poorer eyesight etc.


However, taste do change which I also thinks accounts for a bit of the shift to larger figures.  Diorama building seems another casualty of a shift in taste as well though display space may also factor in.


Personally I also prefer 30 mm and have had better results with them though I used to have excellent results with 54 mm rounds so I can't quite figure out the difference.


As far as historical vs. non, one of the pleasures of flats to me, is the wealth of non-military subjects which do break up the mix a bit.  Also as a lover of the Ancients that is another area catered to quite well by flats but, only selectively by rounds.  (How many Centurions and Roman soldiers in armor can one have in a collection.)


In general what I have found, is most builders of rounds are curious and want to try flats but, for some reason only a few take the leap.  We just have to get them over the edge.


mark 

[willie]

Brain. I have an idea for a figure   Why don't you call it Mad Dogs and English Men come out in the Noon Day Sun. A short round little guy dress in shorts and a bush jacket holding an umbrella and a Pith Helmet and a Bull Dog at his side   Just right for the 60s group   any scale. For fantasy how about the lady who rides around in the armor for the add for Games of War   I my self prefer more of a rubenesque women in armor like the great masters painted   Now that would be a figure   Just think of all the armor you could put her in   I hope that these Ideas can help    Now its off to the work bench with Brandy in hand. Willie
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Michael_43]

Hello Brian,
if there are interesting figures (good designer, good engraver, good casting) I prefer the traditional 30 mm flats.
But I don´t like WWI+II; the grey uniforms are not very colorful.

Maybe a subscription after designing the figures would reduce your risk; you would see how many collectors
buy them like the producers of books.

Best regards

Michael

[Brian]

So we're all getting older and can't see as well as we did   

History is for us old guys and fantasy is for the ladies and the computer if for the kids, so how could they all come together?

A set of figures for all is the big question and size would it be 30mm- 45mm or bigger

At the moment 2D are having made figures in 45mm and 75mm but how about some 30mm, would you buy them?       

[willie]

 Ok Guys. Lets take a look at are hobby and what do we see   Every time I go to a show I see a lot of gray hair. This goes for most hobbies ,if you cant press a button and get it now then forget about it. Second most Kids don't even know about there history   As for painting I think we all at time get into a rut, I know I do I go for months not picking up a paint brush and then the light goes on and I paint like mad.    Another thing is nature is not on are side its called getting old. How many of you guys have painted 28 mm war game armies. I agree I want to see more off the wall stuff.  The whole Indian Army is out there and many more groups. Paint what you want to paint and like. When I was young painting rounds if they did not have it I made it from parts, thats the way you learn. Willie