Very quiet

[Brian]

Here we are at a crossroad,  it not just the committee but all of us that needs to do better.
The last few years we have lost the idea of promoting the flat figure, figures are still coming on to the market but we don't post about them, shows are attended but no revue, the BFFS set their table and walk away or stand in front of it in a group and not engage the public.


The Journal is not what it was but this is no fault of Jerry he can only print what he is sent, our numbers are going down in the society and I keep being asked "what do I get for being a member"  well at the moment not a lot!


This web site is the only contact the members have with the society and when a question is asked, well it my get a answer or not but this is where the committee or site moderators (which we have none) come in even if just to say they don't know.


All the other clubs ad society's produce figures, we play at it, how many of you have the latest Arthur figure? "The Marriage" it's been out for years now but know one knows about it, not even in our figure catalogue.


So not just the committee but all of us need to do better,  next year is our 40th lets hope if we can get there!     [size=78%]  [/size]

[Hannibal]

I would join you PJ for Centurion Miniatures, very dynamic youn company producing continuousely resin figures, quarter and half round de bosse, and flats, of all kinds and their site is well documented.  They are invading the French , Belgian and some German contests and exhibitoins.  They are present with a boot in Many shows since two years, primarley in France. Contact and dispatchiog is very good.


I don't like so much the half-round bosse, with too much relief, but many models are in the two or three formats and they are flexible.
But for a novice, half-round bosse is forgiving more the specificities of a flat due to a strong relief, creating light shadows that should be more painted on a flat, so helping to enter in that world ... 


For the anniversary figure, and because it is an anniversary from older time, I would personnaly dream or re-editing (if mould still exist), or re-create by computer perhaps and with Centurion in flat ad half round, the  particular "egg" character on a wall in large size issued from Anice in Wonderland, because this book and the work of Mike Taylor are the memory of British BFFS-IFFS.


I cold lead to a internal painting contest for the best and/or most original interpretation of the character.


I have to find out a picture somewhere, and shall post it.  There are two others large size, the Lion and its speaker also in larger size than Mik's serie.  This trio would be a re-birth of the BFFS of te years 1900's perhaps.  (Size of 60 or 70mm?)  [perhaps edited by Werten Miniatures, but where are the moulds today?]

Here are few ideas:
the Jabberwocke, dragon, because mould was broken, can't be recovered, make new mould to please all fans of Teniels


The White Knight, emblematic figure of Alice in Wonderland


The Lion and the Horse in 54mm


The egg, in 54mm???


Perhaps choose among and make a new mould in 60 mm for the anniversary, these are ideas or suggestions...




Now let's other member give their ideas and suggestions....

[PJDeluhery]

Oh. Please respond to another thread here for an anniversary figure. It's in line with this discussion.Lurkers, time to voice your opinions!
As for figure sources, I humbly recommend Centurion Miniatures. Some great resin figures and ronde boss. Excellent service and great prices. Check it out.
Centurionminiatures.com

[PJDeluhery]

These are great ideas , and will provide leadership with some guidelines for the future of the Society. Let's hear more.  Other members, ..... what do you say?
As of this posting, there are some 1800 plus reads of this thread. So, I know you're out there.!

[Hannibal]

Yes Jean-Paul, you are perfectrly right, and in France, Belgium and around, we see new editors, like Mussini, Centurion Miniatures and in Italy Zinnfiguren (I forgot the name .. Benini...?  who are issuying new subjects.
Benedikt Widmann has probably astopped his business after the Covis...


The 30mm historical is still available from several editors, and the second hand market is saturated by grey armies.


BFFS could take a good initiative in revieuwing all current editors, by sizes and subject, in metal or resin, and publishing them, with the sppport of the members.
Also indeed re-activating somme contests internally, with new and old figures to stimulate and attract newbies....


This would be a subject for an extaraordinary assembly or council of the committee and even general assembly to boost the site, together with some members in the United States also, and its local distributor(s), of European editors, again updatoing the actives from the dead ends...
Why not for the end of the winter early 2026


I shall push my backlog on Show Galleries, and the search function by giving the editors and namle of flats allows to find out who is selling what rather easily from the pictures.


BFFS should probably promote more its site on several Forums in various countreis, but also several Facebook sites European and overseas (America and Asia, Autralia, ..)


I am always so impressed when asking for a flat identification, or who is selling what to have rather fast respnse for a very large number of members, readers and experts in flats, and not only from Garmany, an evidence that you are all -active in the underground .... but silent in communication when not sollicitated.


This should be the main objective of the BFFS Committee, even if necessary by renexing or injecting younger and fresh blood in the organisation...


My painting club in Belgium suffers from a Committee that reduces from six to three mebers, and from these three only 1/2 is active, the other are asleep and doing less than the minimim.... This is condemned to die shorlty !!


MAKE BFFS Great again !!!    we jus need a leader to boost it for 2026 !!!

[Jean_Paul]

Comment voulez vous promouvoir les jeunes aux plats d'étain si ceux que vous montrez, sont épuisés voir impossibles à trouver. La seule solution est de peindre ce qui est disponible actuellement. Pour promouvoir en montrant des Mignot que personne ne trouvera, est ce la solution. Alors oui il faut peindre pour se renouveler
Où sont les projets BFFS ... ne serait ce pas le moment de les ressortir justement pour promouvoir notre passion
How do you expect to promote young people with tin plates if the ones you're showing are out of stock or even impossible to find? The only solution is to paint what's currently available. To promote by showing Mignots that no one will find, is that the solution? So yes, we must paint to renew ourselves. Where are the BFFS projects... wouldn't it be time to bring them out again to promote our passion?
Jean Paul

[Hannibal]

Congratulations Bani for your positive words !!!!


I grew up starting to paint flats at 66 and I am a fan till my last day, and so is my wife .... After growing up to Master, my role is transmission and I did convert several younger people to the passion of flats, still posting galleries on shows (slower than before as I participate less to them...) but indeed active on seve-ral forum to push these figurines to be promoted ....


By the way, please post your janissairies, My wife's turkish, I painted some 18 months ago, I still have a large grey army, and interested to find another passionate painter to work in parralel....I must have one box of 2-300 pieces unpainted in my cellar ....


I'll post my paintigs soon, or 2023 ...  I know Thomas Urbaniak , not for the Janissairoes, but for the Russian Streltsiies, my second passion....


Let's wake iup and share all our passions to attract younger painters... The world is infinite in he format of flats, and so easy to carry, transport.  Recently resin printing with companies in France, like Centurion Miniatures, are attracting new younger painters ... it is p to us to transport them slowly to the world of smaller size, tin flat and the fantastwit worl of the History of our civilization .... a bit put aside by the schools, internat and fantastic internet IA nowadays....
A big loss in our culture ...

[Guynemer]

I agree with you, Gerhard, in saying that the most important thing is to continue promoting flats. In particular, we need younger generations to take an interest in this rich field.

Flats have so much to offer, and this medium brings together so many intersecting fields. All we have to do is present it more effectively.

We need more videos on their history, famous engravers, editors and painters, the methods of engraving and painting, reviews etc. Generally, we need to appeal to wider, and particularly younger audiences, and to have a greater presence on social media.

The format of Facebook groups is certainly inferior to forums, but they are so much more accessible. It takes much less effort and time to jump on the Klio group and see what people are painting, or ask a question. Whether we like it or not, Facebook groups or other social media forms are integral to the survival of our community.

This forum serves an increasingly specialised but nonetheless essential role, I find. I usually come here to check the list of editors, write-ups on techniques and so on.

It’s been a while since I posted, but I began lurking here again over the past few months. I hope to have some flats finished to share with you all soon. Working on some wonderful janissaries from Thomas Urbaniak. Still basecoating. Made the mistake of using India ink for calligraphy on the banner.. To my horror, successive layers reactivate the ink, but after a coat of varnish, we’re back on track.

I hope to learn engraving one day, and the peculiarities of engraving in slate, so I can have a go at making flats myself.

The disappearance of moulds as editors shut shop is also a great tragedy. I’m thirty years old, and I would have gladly purchased them to continue to offer castings… Perhaps they will surface. And I will be waiting

Best Regards,
Bani

[gerhard]

I don't think the most important thing is to paint. The most important thing for a Society like the BFFS is to promote flat figures in public.Flat figures are unknown to most people in the world. Everybody knows scale models, model trains, model ships and toy figures. But flats are a very small niche. Most (or all) editors nowadays are in Germany, but they getting fewer, most websites are down or  not up to date. Exceptions for instance the websites of Mr Muxfeldt or Zinnprinzessin (beautiful figures, very interesting themes). Thousands of moulds are hided now in cellars. Painting is important, yes, but a society should help to sell the castings. Editing and casting cost money, so every editor has to sell his figures. If there are no editors anymore, Flats are gone forever. Well, this is my sincere opinion, it has not be the "only truth". Have a look to the active websites I mentioned. Maybe you want to buy some castings. https://zinnprinzessin.com/   and  http://muxfeldt-zinnfiguren.tilda.ws/I have no relationship to the two editors. Its not an advertisement.
 

[Jean_Paul]

Je vais me faire l'avocat du diable. Il faudrait déjà commencer à balayer devant sa porte. J'ai participé à un projet commun du BFFS mais je ne l'ai jamais vu mis en valeur. Lors de ma dernière visite au musée de Plassenbourg, il n'y avait que le projet sur le guerre de 30 ans  exposé. Depuis il y en a eu d'autres, il serait peut être temps de se mette à jour et ça remotivera quelques uns pour lancer un nouveau projet ... N'oubliez pas, le plus important est de peindre
I'm going to play devil's advocate. We should start cleaning up our own house first. I participated in a joint BFFS project, but I never saw it showcased. During my last visit to the Plassenbourg museum, only the project on the 30 Years' War was on display. Since then, there have been others; perhaps it's time to update ourselves, and that will motivate some people to start a new project... Don't forget, the most important thing is to paint.

[PJDeluhery]

Hi Mark,
Well then, if the other metrics are down as well, then maybe its time to bump this issue up to leadership. I respect your opinion and all your work in keeping this site alive and functioning. You are in the best position to see what is happening. If you are concerned; then I am as well.
My only point was that for "lurkers" like me, our participation may not be counted. But you have shown that it is counted. Thanks for that input and for all your work (not intending to neglect others who keep this site up and running!).  I'll see what I can do to get a response from leadership.
Thanks.

[marko]

PJ while I respect your opinion, simply dismissing this as a 'seasonal' discussion I think ignores the point and the issue.  A Society with no 'society' loses its purpose.

All of our metrics - participation both from members and leadership, uploads, sign-ons and memberships are down.  There are a very few participants here and in the Journal along with very occaisonal new voices which is worrisome.  What's more I have noticed a tendency of late were even direct questions to the participants - mine included - receive no response at all. 

Beyond a request to deal with a problem my contact with leadership has been absent.  I could expand but, not the place.

I realize the role this site has and thanks to everyone here it is a magical repository of knowledge which is one of the few available in English - it has heaven when I first discovered it years ago.  But, that being the case I could mothball this site, and leave it on line performing essentially the same function and saving quite a bit of effort....

mark

[PJDeluhery]

This question seems to cycle through every few years when things get quiet. I don't participate in Facebook, etc. so this is my main source of finding out what's going on. Not a technophobe, I just don't need the B.S. of social media and some of the people that go with it.
It does not seem to me that quite periods are an existential crisis. Our time and competing interests sometimes conflict. I, for one, don't post unless I have something constructive to say, but I do come every day and read what is here. But that does not show. I suspect I'm not alone. Maybe we're looking at the wrong metric - postings. Maybe traffic or some other measure is a better ruler to measure the site.
If those in the leadership are concerned, maybe its time to meet and discuss this issue.

[John Alberts]

The amount of information and photographs on this site is very deep and essential for the pursuit of painting and collecting Zinnfiguren, it is a virtual and visual catalog and history of painters, engravers, and printers.  This site is a treasure trove and much more accessible and comprehensive than print publications and even Facebook.  My view is that it serves a somewhat different purpose than other platforms.  Although participation and visits appear less than other referenced community sites, its purpose as a repository far exceeds any others that I am familiar with.  Indeed in daily life in many cities and suburban areas coffee shops are livelier and energetic than libraries.  To question the effort and hard work of carrying on is a healthy process despite comparatively lighter participation.  Please understand that the time and work of a few is appreciated.

[marko]

Unfortunately I have to echo this to the point of question the worth of this effort.  Our leadership, of which I am a part of are very unengaged/invisible for a long time now and like others I notice the participation much higher elsewhere.  Perhaps this idea has run its course?

Still I love the Journal and the few I speak to in this environment are all polite talented folks.  The work shown continues to be stunning but, is very occasional.  Off setting this is too often I feel I am talking to myself?

Saddened but, things do change…

Mark