Author Topic: European Union will bann Tin figures  (Read 15181 times)

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Joerg

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2015, 07:02:45 AM »
Is it a toy?

The Directive 2009/48/EC "grabs"
For certain substances like nickel tolerable limit values have been introduced and certain heavy metals which are particularly toxic, like lead, may no longer be intentionally used in those parts of toys that are accessible to children.

THERE IS NO POINT IN QUESTIONING TIN FIGURES AS TOYS.
The toy question simply is the wrong "war front":

@Gerhard, collector items are NOT at the extempt annex.
Liquorice, sire, is not the least important of our benefits out of the dark heart of Arabia.

G.K.Chesterton

gerhard gady

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2015, 06:07:44 AM »
So because they are exempt they are forbidden.
Thats Logical.
So it's time to say Good Bye.
Gerhard

Brian

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2015, 04:13:09 AM »

Ok board with this one as well and the large amount of emails and PM`s about this thread.

 I have better things to do with my life, no more messages please about this thread.

 Now locked

 Tommi


Resin Casting Service click link below
http://tommi-miniatures.moonfruit.com/#/casting-service/4588645622

http://www.planetfigure.com
http://tommi-miniatures.moonfruit.com
http://www.puttyandpaint.com/Tommi

Please click HERE for forum support


Tommi, Yesterday at 6:04 PM  Report



Well Planet Figure are board with the topic so it's locked   :o

gerhard gady

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2015, 01:59:35 AM »
Hello

Can anybody verify that collectors items are exempt. (like scale models) Or did I misunderstood something.
(signed as not useable for children under 14). jThey wrote this on hz-forum in Germany.
Otherwise there will be no tin figures anymore.

Best Wishes
Gerhard

Hannibal

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2015, 07:31:58 PM »
Glen,
 
Such symbols to be harmonized among all countries in Europe is the same difficutlies as to add one symbol in the Unites States = it requires a review of all national technical experts to look for such symbols not existing yet, well understood by end users, getting consensus from 28 countries , ... it may take 1 to two years to be ciruated, one more year to be adopted if consensus is found.
In my job in medical devices, our industres pushed to create many symbols new to avoid translations, but it take years and "lobbying" from several industries.
 
In addition for your market, such symbols will NOT be accepted in the USA without an English explanation on its meaning, if exposed to the USA, in American English, (perhaps also in Spanish?).  It would have to be coordinated worldwide with the ISO TC Committee also, involving all ww countries.
http://www.iso.org/iso/graphical-symbols_booklet.pdf
we have the sign W16 from ISO7010  (triangle with Caution  Toxic material !!! on flats packaging.....
http://www.phs.zju.edu.cn/attachments/2014-09/01-1411466515-15747.pdf
The ISO7001 (ou EN7001 European) must be purchased ....
 
For the age = no  chance; for lead, ... I don't know .....
The request might be issued by a group of users too small and weakly represented in very few countries to have sufficient weight in Europe!
Michel
_______
Men are a bit like God: everything they can do, they do it. Or they will do it.  (Jean d'Ormesson)

Glen

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2015, 05:05:47 PM »
Well, lets see... Joerg's first post was the 18 May and it's a done deal with Hannibal's post on 24 May citing a directive dated 22 April. Seems this thing was well along before the figure makers/painters found out about it. I find it difficult to believe that a multi-national bureaucracy was able to do all of this without the relevant parties - round and flat figure makers, dollhouse furniture makers, and the few model detail companies that still make white metal detail parts - finding out about it and protesting. Was this a closely guarded secret or simply not advertised well before hand?


Given that, there should be a means of exempting certain industries after the fact. How much are lawyers going for these days...?


Hannibal, there has to be some Euro-wide regulatory body that coordinates the various multi-national symbols - think traffic, airports, bus/train stations, and the transport of hazardous materials. How does this group get the word out for a new symbol? Who regulates the production and labeling of glue and model paints? I would think it's only a matter of agreement, design, advertising, and publication. It would be phased in over a a year or two.


Glen
(again, with time on his hands...)

blaster

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2015, 11:32:03 PM »

Hannibal

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2015, 04:32:02 PM »
Thanks Nicholas,
No dobt you will also make heir lifes uneasy; but we need to mobilize representatves from the mains countries where used and sold, surely Germany and France, to obtain supports locally.
 
When looking at EBay.fr, de, uk....we find daily on sales
2800 pieces in Germany
450 in France
a couple (<50) in the UK
less elsewhere ... perhaps choosing the right name translated (Spain? Italy, Sweden, The Netherlands, Switzerland)
Do we have contact in these countries?  For purpose of explaining, can some casting editors explain their lead content, and properties to have position paper ready  (range of content, ...). I guess the most dangerous step is the casting!
 
So Germany , and France have such tradition on life
 
 
Michel
_______
Men are a bit like God: everything they can do, they do it. Or they will do it.  (Jean d'Ormesson)

Nicholas Ball

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2015, 02:13:22 PM »
re reading the list, All religious items are exempt, therefore Vladimirs, St Micheal and Mr Otto's 
 St George figures are ok to continue to make.   ;)

Nicholas Ball

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2015, 02:01:42 PM »
hi Michel,

not over yet, matey, I don't go away that easily!!!! ;D

this is nearly the same response I got, if you read further there is scope for them to exclude these from the regulation if we can say that there is no other alternative than lead, and we can make a good argument. in the meantime can someone let me know the following.

what content % of tin is lead?   I presume there is no alternative, as it's needed for flow and flexibility of the material.

a pure lead pencil is acceptable, even though a child could eat this easier than a figure!!!   and toys are exempt!!!  utter lunacy.

what gets me is that they have been discussing this since 2013 and never realised these figures existed!!!!  how can you make a sweeping ban without firstly checking to see what is effected!!!

If I did this in my company I would be called an incompetent fool!!!

I await a reply from Sotirios and if I don't get one, as I said, I will go back forthwith!


Hannibal

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2015, 02:00:05 PM »
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
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Isly1844



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Nouveau messageSujet: Re: Interdiction du plomb dans les figurines   Aujourd'hui à 19:50Répondre en citant   

Bonsoir,
Voici le commentaire que l'AFCFEF a envoyé via le formulaire en ligne.
Si ça peut aider ceux qui voudraient aussi apporter leur pierre à l'édifice...
Amicalement.
Mathieu

"Tin figures are totally part of European history. They were toys for children in the past, but nowadays they are only used by collectors and painters to make historic events more realistic in special exhibitions and in museums. Usually all packagings of tin figures must mention "this is not a toy, not for sale to minors under 14 years of age", which seems to be already good enough to avoid any misunderstanding concerning the final use of tin figures. Unfortunately the production of tin figures needs  some lead, and due to the new European directive that you are putting together, it might be forbidden to produce and sell tin figures. Actually tin figures are part of our European heritage and they might be erased by this directive . We would like you to consider tin  figures out of the scope of the forbidden objects and so to save for the the next  generations a part of our common heritage. Otherwise the production of tin figures will be definitely put an end to because the use of lead is compulsery in the alloy of tin figures, as it is made of lead and tin."

____________________________________________
[/t][/t]
Michel
_______
Men are a bit like God: everything they can do, they do it. Or they will do it.  (Jean d'Ormesson)

Hannibal

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2015, 01:45:03 PM »
I am now spending half of my life in Turkey, where flats will continue to be sold....
Same for the USA (and ) !!perhaps England if they decide to separate from the EU.... after the referendum of 2017/2016.
 
We invite the EU manufacturers to move outside the EEC, and the painters aswell....  It is called "relocation of art"
Michel
_______
Men are a bit like God: everything they can do, they do it. Or they will do it.  (Jean d'Ormesson)

Hannibal

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2015, 01:38:04 PM »
It is over, we just now have to built up inventory from all flats made and distributed before January 1st 2016, and for the next 30 years ....
 
and post in all musea and exhibitions in Europe "KILLED by THE EEC eurocrats on 22 April 2015 (date of the  amended directive)"

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?
 
 
 
 
23.4.2015   ENOfficial Journal of the European UnionL 104/2

COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) 2015/628
of 22 April 2015
amending Annex XVII to Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006 of the European Parliament and of the Council on the Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals (‘REACH’) as regards lead and its compounds
(Text with EEA relevance)
THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION,
Having regard to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union,
Having regard to Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 18 December 2006 concerning the Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals (REACH), establishing a European Chemicals Agency, amending Directive 1999/45/EC and repealing Council Regulation (EEC) No 793/93 and Commission Regulation (EC) No 1488/94 as well as Council Directive 76/769/EEC and Commission Directives 91/155/EEC, 93/67/EEC, 93/105/EC and 2000/21/EC (1), and in particular Article 68(1) thereof,
Whereas:
(1)On 21 December 2012, Sweden submitted to the European Chemicals Agency (hereinafter ‘the Agency’) a dossier pursuant to Article 69(4) of Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006 (the Annex XV dossier), demonstrating that due to their mouthing behaviour, children, especially those under 36 months, may be repeatedly exposed to lead released from consumer articles containing lead or lead compounds. Lead and lead compounds are present in consumer articles as intentionally added metallic lead, as an impurity or additive of metal alloys (particularly in brass), as pigments, and as a stabiliser in polymers (particularly in PVC).
(2)Repeated exposure to lead from mouthing of articles containing lead or its compounds can result in severe and irreversible neurobehavioural and neurodevelopmental effects to which children are particularly sensitive given that their central nervous system is still under development. The placing on the market and use of lead and its compounds in articles that are supplied to the general public, and which can be placed in the mouth by children, should therefore be prohibited if the concentration of lead (expressed as metal) in that article, or part of the article, exceeds a certain threshold.
(3)On 10 December 2013, the Committee for Risk Assessment (hereinafter ‘RAC’) adopted its opinion, concluding that the restriction is the most appropriate Union-wide measure to address the identified risks posed by lead and its compounds present in articles intended for consumer use in terms of the effectiveness in reducing such risks and proposing certain modifications of the scope of the restriction.
(4)On 13 March 2014, the Committee for Socio-Economic Analysis (hereinafter ‘SEAC’) adopted its opinion in which it concluded that the restriction proposed by the dossier submitter, as modified by RAC and also by SEAC, was the most appropriate Union-wide measure to address the identified risks, in particular in terms of proportionality. This conclusion was reached after analysis of available socioeconomic evidence and on the basis of best available estimates for uncertainty factors, taking into account that there is no threshold for the neurobehavioural and neurodevelopmental effects of lead.
(5)The Agency's Forum for Exchange of Information on Enforcement was consulted during the restrictions process and its opinion was taken into account contributing to a modified description of the scope and exemptions from the proposed restriction.
(6)It has to be concluded that an unacceptable risk to human health arises from the presence of lead and its compounds in articles supplied to the general public exceeding the content limits or, alternatively, the migration rate limit as specified in the opinions. Those risks need to be addressed on a Union-wide basis.
(7)On the basis of the established derived minimal effect level of lead, the mouthing behaviour of children and studies on lead migration from metallic parts of jewellery, a limit content for lead should be set which will apply to metallic and non-metallic parts of articles unless it can be shown that the rate of lead release does not exceed a certain threshold. For coated articles, the coating should be sufficient to ensure that this rate is not exceeded for a period of at least two years of normal use of the article.
(8)Exemptions from this Regulation should be made for certain articles in relation to which the expected migration level is low, such as crystal glass, enamels and precious and semi-precious stones, or acceptable provided that a certain content limit is not exceeded, which may be the case for brass alloys, and for specified articles whose small size means that exposure to lead is minimal, namely tips of writing instruments.
(9)Keys, locks, padlocks and musical instruments can potentially be mouthed by children and therefore may pose a risk to children if they contain lead. However, those articles should be exceptionally exempted as there seems to be a lack of suitable alternatives to lead in the manufacture of those articles, and the possible adverse socioeconomic impact of applying the restriction to them could be significant. Similarly, the impact of applying the restriction to religious articles and certain batteries has not been fully assessed and it is therefore appropriate exceptionally to exempt them from its scope until a detailed assessment can be performed. Therefore, the new paragraphs in this entry should be reviewed after an appropriate period following their date of application, as well as the requirements on coating integrity.
(10)Articles already covered by specific Union legislation regulating lead content or migration should, for reasons of consistency, be exempted.
(11)Guidelines regarding articles that fall within and outside the scope of this restriction should be developed to assist economic operators and enforcement authorities in its implementation.
(12)Economic operators should be allowed a transitional period to adapt their manufacturing to the restriction laid down by this Regulation and to dispose of their stock not yet placed on the market. Furthermore, the restriction should not apply to second hand articles which were placed on the market for the first time before the end of that transitional period as that would give rise to considerable enforcement difficulties.
(13)Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006 should therefore be amended accordingly.
(14)The measures provided for in this Regulation are in accordance with the opinion of the Committee established under Article 133 of Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006,
HAS ADOPTED THIS REGULATION:
Article 1
Annex XVII to Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006 is amended in accordance with the Annex to this Regulation.
Article 2
This Regulation shall enter into force on the twentieth day following that of its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union.This Regulation shall be binding in its entirety and directly applicable in all Member States.
Done at Brussels, 22 April 2015.For the Commission         
The President         
Jean-Claude JUNCKER

(1)  OJ L 396, 30.12.2006, p. 1.

ANNEX
In Annex XVII to Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006, column 2 of entry 63 is amended as follows:
(1)paragraph 6 is replaced by the following:
‘6.By 9 October 2017, the Commission shall re-evaluate paragraphs 1 to 5 of this entry in the light of new scientific information, including the availability of alternatives and the migration of lead from the articles referred to in paragraph 1 and, if appropriate, modify this entry accordingly.’
(2)the following paragraphs 7 to 10 are added:
‘7.Shall not be placed on the market or used in articles supplied to the general public, if the concentration of lead (expressed as metal) in those articles or accessible parts thereof is equal to or greater than 0,05 % by weight, and those articles or accessible parts thereof may, during normal or reasonably foreseeable conditions of use, be placed in the mouth by children.
That limit shall not apply where it can be demonstrated that the rate of lead release from such an article or any such accessible part of an article, whether coated or uncoated, does not exceed 0,05 μg/cm2 per hour (equivalent to 0,05 μg/g/h), and, for coated articles, that the coating is sufficient to ensure that this release rate is not exceeded for a period of at least two years of normal or reasonably foreseeable conditions of use of the article.
For the purposes of this paragraph, it is considered that an article or accessible part of an article may be placed in the mouth by children if it is smaller than 5 cm in one dimension or has a detachable or protruding part of that size.
8.By way of derogation, paragraph 7 shall not apply to:
(a)jewellery articles covered by paragraph 1;
(b)crystal glass as defined in Annex I (categories 1, 2, 3 and 4) to Directive 69/493/EEC;
(c)non-synthetic or reconstructed precious and semi-precious stones (CN code 7103 as established by Regulation (EEC) No 2658/87) unless they have been treated with lead or its compounds or mixtures containing these substances;
(d)enamels, defined as vitrifiable mixtures resulting from the fusion, vitrification or sintering of mineral melted at a temperature of at least 500 °C;
(e)keys and locks, including padlocks;
(f)musical instruments;
(g)articles and parts of articles comprising brass alloys, if the concentration of lead (expressed as metal) in the brass alloy does not exceed 0,5 % by weight;
(h)the tips of writing instruments;
(i)religious articles;
(j)portable zinc-carbon batteries and button cell batteries;
(k)articles within the scope of:
(i)Directive 94/62/EC;
(ii)Regulation (EC) No 1935/2004;
(iii)Directive 2009/48/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council (1);
(iv)Directive 2011/65/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council (2)                                                                   
9.By 1 July 2019, the Commission shall re-evaluate paragraphs 7 and 8(e), (f), (i) and (j) of this entry in the light of new scientific information, including the availability of alternatives and the migration of lead from the articles referred to in paragraph 7, including the requirement on coating integrity, and, if appropriate, modify this entry accordingly.
10.By way of derogation paragraph 7 shall not apply to articles placed on the market for the first time before 1 June 2016.

(1)  Directive 2009/48/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 18 June 2009 on the safety of toys (OJ L 170, 30.6.2009, p. 1).
(2)  Directive 2011/65/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of 8 June 2011 on the restriction of the use of certain hazardous substances in electrical and electronic equipment (OJ L 174, 1.7.2011, p. 88).’
Michel
_______
Men are a bit like God: everything they can do, they do it. Or they will do it.  (Jean d'Ormesson)

Hannibal

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2015, 01:27:45 PM »
When I read the recent comments of Errant published on another forum, I think that comparing the number of deadths caused of children by lead, or by cars, we should immediately stop selling cars in the EEC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
" Martin Rohman a raison ; la situation est sérieuse
Voici copie de la réponse faite par la CEE à la KLIO
Si je lis bien c'est la mort du plat d'étain de moins de 5cm

Dear Mr Beier,
We would like to thanl KLIO for submitting comments on the draft lead guideline via the ECHA’s Call.
We would first like to inform you that the new Commission Regulation (EU) 2015/628, imposing the new restrictions of lead in consumer articles, (amendment of entry 63 of Annex XVII to REACH) has been recently adopted and published in the Official Journal (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32015R0628&from=EN). Please note that the table 2-A of the guideline is simply listing the article categories exempted from the restriction (par-8 of the legislative text). For this reason, your request to add the lead containing tin-based figurines in the table 2-A could not be further considered.
What we would certainly like to explore with you, though, is the nature/application of these specific articles so as to understand and conclude on their inclusion (or exclusion) from the scope (in order this to be clearly and properly reflected in the final guideline).
In principle, we understand from your startement that these articles cannot be considered as toys (Dir 2009/48/EC), otherwise they would be automatically exempted from this restriction. In your comment you note that …”the tin figure is an important part of our European heritage and an optimal medium to make historic events clear and comprehensible, both in museums and in special exhibitions”…If the use of these figurines takes place almost exclusively in museums/exhibitions centres (e.g. for representing battles and other historical events…), these could be possibly considered as professional applications and thereby “out of the scope of this restriction” (that concerns only articles “supplied to the general public”). However, from other comments -also received via ECHA’s call-, we assume that they can also be sold to collectors, which can be broadly considered as “consumers”. If that be the case, these items could be found in a houshold, in the proximity of children (if left for instance on a table as decorative items where small chidren can reach and place them in their mouth).Please let us know if you think otherwise or you may have other views/information on the above mentioned use of these articles.
In addition, the received comments state that lead is essential for the manufacturing of the tin-based figurines mainly because of the flowability of the metal for pouring out all fine details. Isn’t there any other alternative substance or alternative process that could function similarly well to lead in the production of these articles? If not, what is actually that makes lead so unique and unreplacable for this process?
Please note that the restriction will apply only to new articles that will be placed on the EU market after 1 June 2016 (given that  second hand items -already existed in the market before entry into force of the new provisions-are exempted from this restriction, par-10 of the legislative text).
We are looking forward to receive your response/clarifications on the above mentioned questions. Please note that all the received comments via this ECHA’s Call will be further discussed with the Commission services, during the preparation of the final guideline (for which Member States will be also informed in the upcoming CARACAL meetings).
Yours sincerely,
 
SotiYours sincerely,

Sotirios Kiokias

Scientific officer-Risk Management Implementation

European Chemicals Agency
Annankatu 18, P.O. Box 400, FI-00120 Helsinki
Tel. +358 9 6861 8800
Fax: +358 9 6861 8210rios Kiokias

 
 
I  tnink that with such bureaucrats, I wll start votogn against the EEC from now on !!!!
 
 
Michel
_______
Men are a bit like God: everything they can do, they do it. Or they will do it.  (Jean d'Ormesson)

MaEck

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Re: European Union will bann Tin figures
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2015, 11:04:57 AM »
Hi Nick,

thanks for your warm welcome !!

I tried to mobilize all german (round) figure producers and the organizers of the Duke of Bavaria. The response was a little bit dissapointing, but I know several of them became active and protested via the website of ECHA. Also a lot of collectors are supporting us and protested, too.

It`s very good to hear that you are in touch with der ECHA and I´m curious what you will report next.

Good to hear we have Brian and his little tank in the reserve - could be worthful if they give us no chance... ;-)

I keep close,

Markus