MFCA - Miniature Figure Collectors of America - 2016

[Brian]

I'll have a chat to Geoff and see what's what
For those not in the know, Gerry is a well respected and experienced judge at Euro and many other shows.

[gerry Larkin]

Been some good points raised with regards to judging,  Brian, maybe put your name to Geoff with regards to a third person judging at Euro? you have a good point here
Nick, maybe think of Judging at Euro? means you cant enter the flats classes, but you see it from a different angle? and remember Guys and Girls its only two or three peoples opinion on the day, judging is a thankless task!!if done well

[kevind]

I certainly think that the organizers of Expo 2017 should be contacted and made aware of the need for a flat category. They are an experienced group of painters and have run the Chicago Show with great professionalism.

[Nicholas Ball]

Well done willie, good on ya

[Brian]

Remember one time we got criticised at Euro for the poor number of flats in the competition!! being a moderator on the old site I called the members to arms for the next years show, not expecting a great response and thinking I'll be going home with a Euro medal (-; we had so many flats the table had to be extended and since it just get's better and better.
Never got a medal but have judged at this great show so that's something, the good old days hahaha   

[willie]

 Nick, Gerry, PJ, that sounds good to me. I am going to paint and inter figures and help spread the word about flats at shows.Willie

[Nicholas Ball]

Rick Taylor's figure was indeed a masterpiece and well deserved The Mike Taylor Trophy. It was engraved and cast in resin.

I think Brian makes a good point, a third judge who questions is accentual, but the other 2 judges must respect and listen, not just brush the questions aside, out of hand.

Both Euro and Einhoven have, in my opinion very good judges,who are ready and willing to debate with the artist, exactly why certain pieces received what they received. Of all the cases that I know of that have been queried, the artists concerned have actually gone away agreeing with the decision that was finally made. In fact it is this process of understanding that goes on to make us improve to become far better artists.

Perhaps it is our duty as members of the British Flat Figure Society to persuade the organisers to include us into their judging process. To do this though, we would need willing Judges to come forward, those who would be impartial to outside or internal influences, with the integrity to not only judge fairly and well, but to back up their decisions should they need to do so.
I could then email these show organisers and volunteer our services

[Brian]

Now you have to be carful with judges, the experienced flat painter knows the work of other painters and can unknowingly go in to the judging with an agenda of who wins, I have judged and I have seen this happen, but it works the other way to, you down grade a figure as you see it could be classed as "favouritism"
I believe 3 judges are needed, two with flat experience and one from another aspect of painting to ask the question "why"

It's no easy job being a judge!!!       

[gerry Larkin]

Hannibal
can i correct you on one issue you stated, the Mike Taylor trophy was the best painted flat  and not B.O.S it was an engraved flat, made admittedly not the same way as a
traditional flat( I have the master of it if you wish to few it!!) i will be  called all sorts for sticking up for non traditional Zinn figurine , but the winner of the trophy cast his
Engraved flat in Resin, not tin,  Rick Taylor if you Know the name, is an accomplished
painter of the Traditional flat, i can see your point but really take this into consideration, Judging at Euro Militaire is Judged by two flat painters  that paint Flats, and do have a good understanding on flat panting techniques. If you wish to speak to me on this issue Iam only too pleased  to explain further.

[Hannibal]

Actually and slowly and surely a separate competition section is opened for flats only in many competitions in Europe (starting with Kulmbach) , instead of mixing them with round figures.  The next problem is to find and dedicate (and find) enough judges familiar with the flats to have good jugdments, as there are no training schools, guidelines or instructions anymore to standardze such evaluations.

This year, Saumur (France) opened a seoarate section, I believe Blagnac in South of France is discussing so too, Only Montrouge is very conservative and reluctant to split due to some old traditional members reluctant to change their habits ... Lyon (Lugdunum) also converted with a great pleasure, aswell as Ransart three to four years ago.

So some patience more ...  but also the coming new "miniatures, and canevas paintings, which require absolutely non engraving, and which should also be handled separately, but these are too new to be considered: the look more as the other miniatures paintings so familiar in the Vatican Museum.  They started to appear in Sèvres three years ago with the painting of a pinup on the piece of metal of a US aircraft of WWII = ery critisize as not belonging to such competition, but several "matsre painters' now introduced them in Europe as "creations ', or unique pieces".

Time is need to adapt, Folkestone and MFCE are introducing them since a few years and it was frustrating for many flat painters to have the BOS at Folkestone assigned to a non engraved flat in nale of Mike Taylor ! when so many painters had hard worked to get this prestigious honour medal!

I did too suffer like Nick of two consecutive competition with no award at all after several silver and gold, where flats were mixed with figurines, and probably (?) judged by non flat painters, with no idea how to judge them !!. Very frustrating for my wife who decides to stop painting  for such deep fall !

So I agree and support that painting talents should be properly judged , over the ego of some non flat painters and organizers unless rejecting tham or separating them with dedicated judges, should not frustrate hobby painters to exercise and be willing to show their progresses. to the community.  It is not fair.

Perhaps the community of flat painters shoul0l issue some guilelines on the specific attentions to judge a flat as opposed to round figures could be established and issued , for painting but also judging ....We have enough excellent painters nowadays  in the ww community to set-up such text in the coming year, to be finalized at Kulmbach 2017 and issued from there !!!  Only a leader is needed ! and timelines.

[Nicholas Ball]

As flats are coming on in leaps and bounds in Europe, the organisers of shows are taking note and to be fair are doing their bit. Delphine of Les Feles who runs the Ransart show, Rob and Margot who organise the Einhoven show, along with their teams are Brilliant in including the flat figures. The Judges are also flat painters as well as round and are very very fair.
We get on well with the Chief Judge at Euromilitaire and he also prefers flat painters to be in the judging pool.

We do still go to shows where certain judges do not like or appreciate flats and do not think they should be tolerated, all I say is what a closed minded lot they are. On saying this, there aren't that many.
I appreciate all good art, whatever.
What some of these guy's don't seem to appreciate is that many of us are actually round painters so why the animosity?
I don't see this argument, oh I paint rounds I don't understand flats!!!  what do they have on their walls at home, if not pictures that are FLAT!!
I know a good round from a bad one, if something is painted well, its painted well! I know that flats are better in photos because they can emphasise the roundness. If Judges have problems then here's a small piece of friendly advice.  Take a photo and look at it. Then make up your mind what to award
We only ask for fairness, nothing more.

[PJDeluhery]

  I agree with you guys . I paint because I like to and if I don't win no big deal. Also it gives me a chance to see the guys and buy some more flats. So who is going to judge next year at World Expo 17? If this is going to be a world wide show with flat painters coming from all over the world for this event? Are they going to have a section for flat painters? Willie

THAT is a great question! I'm guessing it will be the "usual crew." But we don't know at this point.

[willie]

  I agree with you guys . I paint because I like to and if I don't win no big deal. Also it gives me a chance to see the guys and buy some more flats. So who is going to judge next year at World Expo 17? If this is going to be a world wide show with flat painters coming from all over the world for this event? Are they going to have a section for flat painters? Willie

[PJDeluhery]

I agree with Nick and Ed. But this is an old issue with this show.


I really do not care if I get an award - I paint for myself. (once or twice I've even skipped the awards presentation.) However, poor judging discourages other artists from coming to the show. Many artists are annoyed and discouraged by what they consider biased or incompetent judging. It's bad for the future of the show and keeping/attracting potential participants. The current "management" knows the issues; but are unwilling or unable to change. Prior to my "break" in painting, I was entering my work as "not in competition." I may go back to that. The rabble-rouser in me was tempted to turn this into a "protest movement", but the leaders already know the issues and refuse to deal with it. I'm not motivated to create social change as this may degenerate into divisive politics.


We are having a change in "management" at MFCA which is a very good thing. Hopefully the new leaders will not repeat the mistakes of the past. If they do, my prediction is that the show will go away or be very much smaller. This would be a tragedy; but it has happened elsewhere. 

[Edward Cepauskas]

Agree very much with your sentiments Nick.

On this side of the pond I think we have a real problem at the major shows when it comes to judging flats. Rounds are judged fairly good, for the most part, but I suspect they don't know what they are looking at when it comes to rounds. And I also suspect there is a bit of   "having to put up with us",  as we establish ourselves into their show of round figures.

With that said, after seeing the number of flats at MFCA and those who are trying  them out, it is very encouraging. I think there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Ed