30mm

[Brian]

Latest 30mm painted by me, great figures from Wolfgang Bock
I have to confess I was one of the guys that said flats can only be tin and 30mm is the only size to have, still love the 30mm but more open minded now  if it good I'll have it!! 

[Glen]

X2 PJ. Seriously...

[PJDeluhery]

I really do not see this discussion as "us vs. them". The beauty of flats is that we all do different styles, scales and subjects; and it's all good! We are a brotherhood (including the Ladies!) of artists, and passionate about what we do. Why do we all have to do the same thing? What fun would that be?
I don't hold with the opinion of "Anything that is not metal or not X scale, (etc, etc,) is not a "true flat." While there are those with such opinions, and I  respect them; we're all entitled to our own views on the subject. There is room for everyone. I would only object if someone began forcing his views on others: e.g. only 30mm may be shown or judged or not judged. I don't see anything close to that happening here.
My advice is this: If you feel 30mm's are ignored, then paint some outstanding figures, present them in a dynamic way, and display them at shows and elsewhere. I think we are all influenced by what we see at shows, and you may start grabbing the attention you wish.
I certainly appreciate 30mm's, respect the artistry involved, and have painted some in my day; but I just find them too hard to see.  I think much of the show audience has this problem, so consider this in your display. For example, display them on a stand at eye level, provide a magnifying media of some kind, etc. Who knows, you may star a whole new trend?
 
 

[Glen]

Hello Michael! The use of various sized figures is not uncommon and is employed most often in larger dioramas where there is a single, controlled point of view (like a box diorama). The technique of using large figures in the foreground, medium-sized figures in the middle, and small figures in the background, narrowing roads and paths, altering the walls and roof angles on buildings and graying out colors with distance is known as forced (or forcing the) perspective. No need for a separate category as they are all just dioramas.


Cheers,

Glen

[frankhenson]

Hi
Just adding a thought to this
I paint the larger flats be they metal or resin
The 30mm flats seem to be sets or vignettes
where as the larger flats are stand alone subjects and for me that is their appeal

I have some 30mm sets in the collection.... But Jupiter keep bringing out such
nice pieces ... wonder if I will ever get round to the 30mm stuff
I like the cuirassier and will eventually get hold of one

Frank

[Michael_43]

Referring to my last post I have a new idea for combination big and small flats.
Napoleon´s retreat from Moscow (Heinrichsen, Scholtz, Alexander Baden, etc.) in the backround and a big flat
like the new curassier in the foreground.
But then you need a new class for competitions like "combination"...

Michael

[Michael_43]

Here an extreme example for a combination of big round figures, 54 mm 3-D figures and small 30 mm flats.
In the foreground you see clay-built figures with clothes of textile. In the middle of the Diorama there are 54 mm rounds and
in the backround there are hundreds of flats crossing a river.
Rudolf Zellner, a famous german collector and painter in the 60´s created 22 Dioramas for the "Marienwerk" in Altötting,
where they show the history of pilgrimage there.
The diorama shows a scene 1648 in the 30-years-war.   

best regards

Michael

[alfsboy]

There is room for everyone .Size is preference not a necessity, at  for least painting flats .
Anyone who wants a totally 3d version of that figure for a cheap price should wait until MasterBox,   a Ukranian plastic kit  company ,bring out their  1/32 plastic kit  of it soon .I have their lancer and Hussar and they are very good indeed .I assume Mr Putin will let them have enough gas to melt the plastic to mould 

[Brian]

No "Them and Us" just friendly conversation, and "big" ones!! paint more of them then 30mm  , and as for resin!!!  I also paint and sell them all the time  photo of one that on the table now, it' s not 30mm   

   

[marko]

The answer is nothing at all - just a matter of preference and taste.

I believe the original observation was the lack of 30 mm in shows these days which sounds like it may depend on which show one attends but, there does seem to be a leaning towards the large scale these days.

Either way a lot to choose from in either scale and plenty of examples on this site for both.

mark 

[Glen]

Thinking off the cuff here, but perhaps an official BFFS/IFFS reader (not just member) poll is in order? You can start with an assumption that most if not all of the respondents will collect, paint, or do both.


Make the questions as direct as possible, i.e Do you collect flats? Y/N. Nebulous questions give nebulous answers and nebulous answers don't provide meaningful data. Ask about scales/sizes, genres (historical eras alone could be several questions), painting mediums, entering contests, club membership, etc., but don't get bogged down in minutiae, i.e. Do you prefer flats to facing left or right when at the present arms position? L/R.


Post the poll on the reader forums (or a separate link on the BFFS site and set it up so that any figure-oriented hobbyist can respond without having to register on the forums), but I would also suggest that the poll also be posted on other figure sites such as Planet Figure, Timelines, etc. Just remember to ask to respondents to only one fill out one poll or simply direct them to the aforementioned separate link. Allow at least 30 days to collect data.


And don't forget to ask about pinup girls...


Glen

[Brian]

Hi, I've tried to wright something a few times but just scrubbed it out!! it's good what I read and I think we don't have to worry to much about the 30mm at the moment, getting new painters and collectors is what I think we should be looking at, if this is fantasy then maybe that the way to go, we'll still have the classic figures for us old guys.

Would it have to be the figures the younger lads are all ready using in gaming or would it be back to classic work like "Lord of he Rings" style figures ? no worries about copy right we're just talking.       

[PJDeluhery]

Just found this discussion, and most of my points have already been made. I'd simply add that as long as the contest/competition is under the Open System (Gold, Silver, Bronze) there is really no need for a separate category for 30mm figures. Thirties can and should be able to compete on an artistic level with anything larger or smaller. Putting them in a separate category may make them stand out or easier to find on a large table; but a 30mm lead sinker (stinker??    ) is no better or worse than an 70mm lead sinker, and should be judged accordingly.
My big lesson from years of contests is: Find a way to make your piece stand out and get noticed. Presentation is everything. This can be done in any scale. 
I don't do 30s only because I do not see that well anymore. I expect this is a big problem for us older folks. But the younger folks may find them when they tire of the current crop of round fantasy figures. Of course having some fantastic 30 mm flat fantasy figures would not hurt at all.
 

[alfsboy]

I have been out of the game so long I am relearning everything .
When I went to Kulmbach for the first time in 1975 there were few high quality painted.In fact it seemed to be  frowned on by many collectors though my painted stuff sold quickly and for a  high price .I always thought the quality of many flats was better than many rond boss figures which is one reason I love flats .The movement and camp scenes ,etc are huge fun and well done for the most part .The 28 mm wargame figures    seem to be  based on the original Minifigs 25 mm figures and the anatomy  and proportion is an insult and still is .The fact they are popular is neither here nor there .Thomas Kinkaid was popular.I rest my case.
   I remember painting lots of 20 mm flats for Under Two Flags .I think Franco Prussian war and some 30 years war .Lovely little figures .no idea who made them .I know that 20mm figures are now very popular in Europe and the Valdmar figures are superb .
I think there are some superb flats out ther and some stunning painters .The Glorious Empires .Mignot ,and many of the companies who are on  on here  make some great figures that are inspirational .The fact somethings popular doesnt make it right ,it just makes it profitable .
Martin

[marko]

While I agree with much of this the belief that detail is lacking in 30 mm figures is simply not true as far as the best engavers are concerned.  Having been knee deep in Mohr figures of late it is quite stunning the detail present with clear expressions, jewerly, embroidery on clothing and medals.


Now bringing out the detail can be a challenge but, as in figures of all sizes there are makers/engavers of all skills levels.  There are beatifully engraved 30s from years ago that are as skillful and beautiful as anything engaved today.  A first rate painter can still make a masterpiece but, they are usually starting with a well engraved figure as well.


mark