International Flat Figure Society - British Flat Figure Society

Flat Figures Painters Forum => Newbie Section => Topic started by: Moore on July 05, 2013, 04:27:18 PM

Title: More "Reference"
Post by: Moore on July 05, 2013, 04:27:18 PM
Hi Everyone,

I am a military historical painter with rounds. I have been paiting about 8 years and
in a local club here in Atlanta, GA.  USA.
I thought I would try my hand at painting flats.
I have talked to Pat D. here in the States at the MFCA show. He was great help
and so were his 'partners in crime' the NE Hawaiian shirt "mafia'.
My first attempt at flats was really semi flats. That is what I call them, they had some
'relief' to them.

Now I have this one in front of me I picked up from the Little Tin Soldier.  It came with a little photo copied
picture but I want to see if I can find another picture of it. How do I go about that, I don't even know
what it's called.  What do  you use as reference ?  Or is there no reference when painting flats.
Should I just try to use this photo copied picture of it ? 

I know what  you may ask, post a picture, I am not sure I know how and I don't have a very good camera.

It's a little 'elft' standing on a silver pot in a forest. He is wearing a top hat and has his nose in the opening of the pot.

Thank you for any  help you can give me.

Dee
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Brian on July 05, 2013, 05:40:25 PM
Is this the one? ;)
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: marko on July 05, 2013, 06:39:24 PM
As you see Dee usually someone will hopefully be able to point you in the right direction as to a reference.  On this site alone there are over 2,000 pictures so you have a good chance of an example.  If not normally someone can give you a hint.


I suspect this is a Leprechaun by the way.  I look quite like this when I am sniffing a good wine as well...


Mark
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Moore on July 05, 2013, 06:48:18 PM
Brian !  That is the one !   Thank you so much. Where did  you find that ?  In the 'gallery' on this site ?

Mark.  I feel very foolish, it's not an elf, I could not think of the word..... Leprechaun.... :)

Do you both feel that I or anyone could do both, paint rounds and flats ?

Can  you give me some background on how long you guys have been painting flats ?

I had felt that I could not paint flats, it's either one or the other, flats or rounds. I thnk the mind
set is of course very different, or is it really ?

When I get a chance I am going to look through the gallery.

Thank you both so very much.
Kindest Regards
Dee
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: marko on July 05, 2013, 07:37:22 PM
Dee,


I suspect most of us - myself included started with rounds and either do both or discovered flats a bit later.  I have been at it for 40+ years with the last 8 or so being focused on flats - yikes. 

You will find there all kind of styles and there is no 'right way' which is how a hobby should be.  The thing I enjoy with flats is the range of figures is so broad and eclectic - where else can you find a Medieval Fire brigade after all?

Good luck and feel fee to ask questions.  There are also some articles on painting flats here http://www.intflatfigures.org/index.php?action=kb;area=cats;cat=1 (http://www.intflatfigures.org/index.php?action=kb;area=cats;cat=1)


What medium do you paint in?  We have plenty of acrylics and oils painters with one in gouache as well.


Mark  8)
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Brian on July 06, 2013, 04:41:24 AM
Dee, you ask for reference but the figure your painting needs no reference  ::)  there's no uniform you can use your imagination as  Leprechauns don't exist ! or do they  ;D
 
And as for painting flats, anyone can do it, just other techniques need to be used, but have fun and just ask if your stuck ;)     
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Joerg on July 06, 2013, 04:56:12 AM
@Brian,
I am quite sure, that Leprechauns do exist  ;D

Joerg
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Chris Seeley on July 06, 2013, 06:54:13 AM
The Irish believe that  Leprechauns do exist, even more so after they have had a few glasses of Guinness. So what you need is a few glasses of Guinness then all will be come clear or not.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Chris
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Moore on July 06, 2013, 08:51:53 AM
Mark,
I am an oil painter.

Brian, ahhhh yes that's right Lleprechaun's don't exist.
But, just as Joerg says, and Chris.  I take that as 'authority' they are real :)

So it's kind of like painting fantasy. I have done 1 finished  fantasy round in acrylics.

I have to keep reminding myself to just have fun.

Thank you all so very much. I may just prime this one and start in on it. I will try to post a picture later on.
Even with a crummy camera, you might be able to give me some tips.
I have been looking at it on my desk for a while now, like a year :)

Thanks
Dee
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Moore on July 06, 2013, 10:26:17 AM
Guys,

Another question. What do I fill little tiny holes with in the flat ?  I have 2 party resin I use
for resin figures. Would that be okay ?

As a 'rule' with flats, very little clean up and flashing. I see some along the edges that
I am gently cutting / shaving off.

Thanks
Dee
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Glen on July 06, 2013, 10:47:41 AM
Dee, The tools used for prepping flats are the same tools used for prepping resin and metal rounds - hobby knives, sanding sticks, fine files, etc. You can use the same putties/fillers as well: Squadron Putty, Milliput, Aves Apoxie Sculpt, Kneadatite (Green Stuff), etc. Ditto for primers and paints. If you're already well into rounds, you're pretty much set as far as tools and materials go.

Painting-wise, rounds are generally painted with the 'halo of light' overhead. Flats can be as well, but often there is some specific directionality. I tend to use a light source coming from the front upper left. With that in mind, you have to look for body parts and whatnot that might cast a shadow over another part of the piece. It'll all depend on the figure's pose.

Good luck with it.

Glen
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Nicholas Ball on July 06, 2013, 03:45:54 PM
Although I paint in water mixable oils, I fill tiny holes with acrylic paint and smooth it off.

Leprechauns don't  exsist?   Does this mean that Santa's not real either!!!!! :'(
 I thought that  if you dug at the end of a rainbow where it lands on the ground you will find a large pot of gold.

OK I haven't found one yet, but I'm an optimistic type of guy :o

I agree with Mark, most of us started in rounds and some still paint them ;) but unfortunately I possibly couldn't comment on this, or should I plead the 5th amendment???  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Dee,  Do post photo's we will help anyway we can ;)
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: errant49 on July 06, 2013, 04:00:09 PM
Don't worry Nick
I can see a leprechaun in my mirror each morning when I wake up
Don't you?
Eric
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Nicholas Ball on July 06, 2013, 05:22:06 PM
Eric O'mally, has a nice ring to it.

Do you do tarmacing???? :P ;D ;D
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Moore on July 07, 2013, 09:18:31 AM
Glen, Thank you so just use what I use for my round figures. Got it.
I have spoken to others at shows who have done flats and I do understand the 'halo' vs
directional light. I have read Greg DiFranco's articles and I have Mike Taylors book.  Right now,
I find Mike Taylors book too much for me to 'absorb' It's great reference.  I think what confuses me
is the 'relfective light'.  I am going to try to just paint and then maybe try to understand that a bit more
later on.   I am mostly a round figure painter, but the flats fasicnate me.

Nick, I will try to post once I get this going.

Thanks everyone so very much. This is a nice place to be.

Dee
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: willie on July 07, 2013, 11:16:11 AM
 I started with figures from Bob Bard Buslers , Britains  Historex  Rose . I got my first flats from Pokes in NY. I used green stuff to fill holes and a magnifier to paint with. As for painting use what you feel good with.  :) As long as it makes you feel happy with the end results, then do it. As for Leprechauns  ;) I would say that this club is sort of like Area 51 strange things happen on this web page :P So welcome to the club and you sanity Hearing will come soon :P
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: PJDeluhery on July 11, 2013, 11:19:43 AM
Dee! It's great to see you here. Welcome.

Lots of friendly people with good information here - as you can see. I'm with Nick on the hole filling - unless it's a very large hole - I just use a little extra acrylic paint when I prime. But, there's one no right way.

BTW folks, Dee's flat of an ACW Confederate Cavalry Bugler was mentioned favorably in Toy soldier and Model Figure Magazine. Well done, Dee!

As anyone knows, Leprechauns are very real, although sometimes best viewed with (through) Guinness or Jameson/Bushmills brand glasses. Dee, if you want to see one, I'll buy the next time we meet!!
 
 
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Moore on July 12, 2013, 03:06:01 PM
OMG Pat, You posted that.  :o  Thank you. I am thrilled to be here and hope to really make this
my second passion. I thought maybe armor or softskins would be, I love the softskins, but I am
really leaning towards flats.
I have collected a few flats so this maybe the path I go down.

Thanks again Pat and everyone for welcoming me to this facet of the painting hobby.

I will keep searching this forum and try to learn as much as I can and ask questions.

Dee
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Brian on July 12, 2013, 03:29:43 PM
Did someone say armour and soft skins, I've got tanks and trucks, even a few motorcycles chucked in. All you've got to do is ask.  :)
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Nicholas Ball on July 12, 2013, 03:48:55 PM
OK  i'm an Iriot, ???  and I'll give it a go and ask!!! :-\

Do you have soft skin Brian???????  Are you using too much moisturiser again!!!! :P :P

As for Motorcycles, I would like to draw your attention to page 6 of the health and safety manual, whereby it quotes:

Whilst using 2 wheels at speed, which may indeed help it to retain an upright position, it must be noted that in a static position, the said object may have a tendency of falling into a horizontal position, whereby it may therefore cause unintentional damage to either rider or pillion!!!
We therefore suggest that all operating manuals are read and fully understood before such actions of riding are undertaken!!!
Perhaps for those of a less competent proposition use vehicles of a 4 wheel nature.

I recon I'm in the wrong job!!!! This cr*p is so easy to write!!!!!! I'm a natural ;D :D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Moore on July 12, 2013, 08:34:26 PM
Guys,

I have another question. I have been looking at this flat and it's ready to be primed. BUT........
I noticed the hat is just flat, no jokes please   :).  But really here is my question, sometimes do
you have to paint in the folds and creases. I am not sure I can do that, I guess I could just follow
the picture. OR should I put putty on it and make some folds ?

Sounds like everyone has been into other hobbies too.  You guys are very funny, I thought I was on the wrong forum :)
I use to do dollhouses and after this flat I may go back to that ;)  Just kidding.

Thanks
Dee
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: PJDeluhery on July 13, 2013, 12:23:07 PM
Hi Dee,
 
Yes, depending on the casting and your vision of it, you may have to add detail/relief or even ignore relief that is already there. Just paint it as if the relief was present.
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Nicholas Ball on July 13, 2013, 04:20:49 PM
I find it easier to paint in folds than add putty etc. Casting is just a guide anyway, once painted it is quite hard to tell what is and isn't cast.

I must say I recently had a figure where the fold was in the wrong place and yes I ignored it, however in certain light you can see the casting which is rather annoying.
If you do need to ignore a cast fold, try to do it as dark as possible.
Title: Re: More "Reference"
Post by: Moore on July 14, 2013, 11:01:05 AM
Pat,  understand. will try to paint it in.

nickball:   thank you for your opinion.  Will heed that advise about if it's wrong, to make it darker.

Thanks
Dee