Painting without solvents ?

[GuerrierdeRohan]

Hi Socko47,
sorry for the delay in answering, and thanks for the 2 pages. I have many books on painting (not about painting flats) and indeed, as you say "Her statement about cooking oil surprised me".
As Hannibal pointed out, solvents are not that dangerous, except perhaps if you have been a chain smoker (as I was).

Best Regards,
Jean-Marc

[socko47]

Jean-Marc,
   I just opened a recently purchased book on painting. Portrait Painting Atelier by Suzanne Brooker.
Attached are two pages from her book. Her statement about cooking oil surprised me. Murphy’s soap or dishwashing soap I’ve heard before.

[Hannibal]

OK! I use odorless commercial white spirit since years; I have suffered of cardiac issues (triple bypass) due to food, fat and stress, rather than toxic effects in my body and I am chemist and feels in good health at 77... But I close the little metallic device containing WS when not using (only open a few seconds), not keeping a large glass contaioner in front of me all the time of painting ... and I use WS or turpentine to dilute oil paint instead of oil, as it dries faster, allowing two or three painting sessions a day.  (When sun shows up, I let the flat dry half an hour to one hour in the sun, before starting the next painting session....).


We are all subjected to micro-particles, plastic, noise, stress at work, smoke, gas and car fumes in cities ... this solvent issue on some sessions of painting is not a major contribution to health degradation, I believe [size=78%] and would not force me to wear a gas mask to paint with oil paint of Humbrol vapours and diluents.[/size]
[size=78%]But I understand professionals painters should have a concern to enxgtended esposures and could use small ventilators to expell fumes, if necessary or paint in open spaces, not in tiny rooms.[/size]

[Henry]

Hi, I can add that, for the same safety concerns, I'm willing to try orange turpentine instead of Venetian turpentine, that is, basically limonene, a food additive https://www.atamanchemicals.com/d-limonene_u24225/


I still have to give it a try, so I don't have the results yet. Anyhow, turpentine (or mineral turpentine, or white spirit) which is much more toxic than Venitian turpentine, should not be used as an oil color medium, as it will not allow the pigment to last over time. Instead, Venitian turpentine is a resin extracted from pine trees. Accordingly to oil painters, the only usage for turpentine/mineral turpentine/white spirit in oil painting should be for washing brushes at the end of the painting session... (Winsor and Newton are selling a more stable version, they say, anyhow, supposed to be used as part of a medium, not as the only medium...). See, like herein, for further reference https://thepaintbox.com.au/2021/07/13/the-paintbox-guide-to-solvents/

[Hannibal]

Also if you wish to (re) consider: When looking at Spanish painters of flats, I think that most of them use acrylics with a talent making us admire and jealous...  [size=78%]](see Spanish shows galeries).[/size]

[GuerrierdeRohan]

 Thank you all for the answers,
As Mark says, there is no obvious choice. This said, even if there is a learning curve, I’ll give a try to the following, in this order :

WMO’ s (I just discovered the acronym for Water Mixable Oil, I learn everyday : - ) ) , but here,I’ll have to test Cobra (thanks to Nicholas) and Holbein. What is not really clear is the question of mediums, it seems some can be used with any WMO brand, others are for a specific brand (?).

Schminke Medium W which is supposed to transform oil paint in WMO.Not sure if the consistency would be "right" for flats ?


Gamsol . This looks very interesting. I must thank Joe for this. I knew vaguely  Gamblin colours existed, but as they are not widely distributed here, to say the least, I never had a look on these products, even less on Gamblin mediums.

Acrylics with Kimera, and probably some artists acrylics at a later stage : Liquitex acrylic Gouache ? Golden Open ?  Golden SoFlat ? I still have many Vallejo colours, I just had problems with mixes, which at times gave strange results (I still wonder why). It’s also clear  using a wet palette is mandatory. But, as I understand the problem,  painting  very smooth transitions using only acrylic  is a very different technique of painting compared to oil painting.

It was also pointed out rightly that the products used in painting have all their issues, acrylics included (interesting paper on Jackson website)
If I understand well, using watercolours would be safer than anything else.
I know some people paint flats with watercolours , but here I’ll have to pass !

And my apologies, Nicholas, with family duties I can’t go to Eindhoven , but I’ll remember the offer, thank you.

Best Regards,
Jean-Marc
 

[Nicholas Ball]

Hi Jean- Marc.   If you are use to oil painting flats and have a good degree on working with them, then water mixable oils is probably a good way to go. The oil within them has been modified so the paint brakes down with water, making them less smelly and more convenient to use as they thin with water and clean out with water. They react in exactly the same way as traditional oil paint does and still leaves a nice sheen. I find acrylic hard to use as it dries flat, so the 3 dimension aspect tends to get lost. Cobra make a good water mixable oil. Windsor and Newtons tend to be too thin and watery so coverage is really poor.

If you are at SMC Eindhoven this weekend, pop over to the BFFS stand so we can try to help

Nicholas

[socko47]

Here is a new article from Jacksons Art discussing acrylic paint waste. While we use very little amounts we should not be ignorant of the products we use. There is the following conclusion: Acrylic painting is a very tiny contributor to the microplastics problem. If you wish to make a real impact it would be more effective to encourage industry to make changes, as they are the major contributors. If you would like to do something about your paint water, you can easily filter the solids out of the water with a simple procedure and dispose of them with your solid waste.
I would think it could be an issue if your waste water could affect a well or pond on your property.

https://www.jacksonsart.com/blog/2023/09/28/acrylic-painting-rinse-water-microplastics/

[marko]

Vallejo and Andrea have been fairly established in the general figure world for a number of years and are still good choices given their large range and you can also purchase colors specific to a specific time period - napoleonic or american civil war for example.  There are many choices now Kimera are supposed to be quite nice I have been trying Scale-75 but, have a bit of Vallejo as well - they all seem to play nicely together.  (I am an oil painter but, like to undercoat in acrylics.)

One nice addition you might look at is one of the wet palettes available that allow you to keep paint wet for much longer and allow you to wash clean the painting surface as well. 

Fortunately it is hard to find a poor choice, unfortunately there is no obvious choice.  The only relevant item seems to be a paint that you can thin sufficiently as thin coats that can be built up seem to work best with flats and not obscure detail.

mark

[socko47]

Products made by Gamblin. They have a line of mediums without solvents that could be a solution for you. They have GAMSOL Odorless Mineral Spirits which is considered the safest thinner available. Check out their website and the MSDS to see if it will work for you. They also make safer oil paints. Otherwise you will have to try water based oils or acrylics. Be aware that some hobby acrylics are solvent based using alcohol or other solvents. So be aware depending on your medical advice.  Thinning paint for airbrushing has yielded some problems that may not affect you in hand painting when the wrong thinner was mixed with the paint. Here is a bit of backround        https://youtu.be/wc8ne4XdkSI?si=PT6BJIhgQakma6MC
Joe

[oleg]

Hi Jean-Mark,
I have heard about and even saw water based oils. I have no idea what they are but they may be useful for you.
Oleg

[John Alberts]

Have never used Kimera but read good descriptions of it.  I find AK Interactive Gen 3 meets all needs.  Also had success with Andrea, Vallejo, and Scale 75-both the inks and paints.  Find all can be diluted with water and still provide an impression

[GuerrierdeRohan]

Hello all,
a short note about what I have done, and my apologies for some basic questions on a great forum.  I have painted many round figures in various scales , in acrylics, ( 28mm, 15mm, 10mm, and 6mm, for ex. British 1945 para camo anyone in this cale ? ). Some years back I entered the world of flats and I have never turned bacK.

But I'm now facing a problem : doctors say that I should no longer use oil colours (which are solvent free,  )  with white spirit, turpentine; Liquin, etc, which are a bit nasty.

So far the other options are :-to use a mask...-to use acrylics again but which ones and more importantly : how ? After some research I believe Kimera range would be an answer, but a)would you recommend other brands ? And b) which brand can be heavily diluted without problem(s)  of coverage ?- to use oil colours misceable with water... Again , after a long search, it seems Holbein Duo Aqua would be good enough. But I would need a confirmation, and if you have any other recommandations about other brands I'd like to see them.

Thank you ahead for the answers,
And keep up the good work !

Best Regards,
Jean-Marc