International Flat Figure Society - British Flat Figure Society
Flat Figures Painters Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nicholas Ball on September 25, 2015, 03:48:51 AM
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Hi All,
Well I started to paint one of my favourite figures, a Gondola from the Night in Venice set.
After working on the steersman and the Monkey, I went to start work on the cloak that the Monkey is holding onto, and found that the lower corner of the guys cloak and jacket have not been cast!! :( There's an odd V shape???
How is the best way to build up the missing detail, bearing in mind, I don't want to put my grubby finger's all over the painted area's!!!
Thanks Nicholas
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I think the only way is to glue a little sheet of metal of the same shape of the missing detail on the back of the figure then building up the detail with milliput or similar putty.
Mauro
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hi nicholas: very nice start !!! :) if I can help - you cold use duro green stuff and a little patience with toothpick ;)advantage of duro is that you can do it in one step and you do not need to use sanding paper or other tools wich could damage anything else. maybe is good to glue some small thin plastic slab behind this V shape and than to add the duro.
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Nick
Get a guide of the shape with a paper templateTthis shouldnt disturb painted areas.then with magi scupt or miliput create the shape.The key is to leave the putty for about half an hour it is still plyable and can bestill stuck to the figure.I assume you are only painting one side so you can push putty onto the cast area.Then spit or wet putty to achieve a smooth surface.
Dave
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Hi, Nicholas,I think the most difficult part of the reparation is to smooth the new surface-part to the rest - I mean to make a seamless transition between the parts.
If I were you I would use a possibly most fitting, thin metal-part and glue it to place using cyanoacrylate adhesive. The less glue is used is the better.
Having the part in place you could build up the thickness and creating the texture using primer and fine brush.
But I am afraid you can not spare some burnishing on the facing line using some emery papers of very fine grade.
In this step the neighboring parts could be masked by tape.
Thereafter the affected area could be primed again.
Of course to execute the operation might be more difficult than to write about it.
Anyway the figure is very nice, so it is worthwhile to put all the needed efforts into the recovery.
Good luck and waiting your report about the outcome.
Best regards-
sandor
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Just two more remarks:
1. I thought that the figure is two sided - in case if it is one sided only, then the reparation seems to be much easier.
2. I think the Milliput or any similar material is far too coarse for a 30 mm figure. That is why I think several coats of finely aligned primer is better
Br.
sandor
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Hello Nick,
sometimes it´s easier to buy a new figure ....
Look at the SBS on our homepage, too. There is a SBS with repairing flats.
Best regards
Michael
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Michael - buy new !!! go and wash your mouth out with soap!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I'm not giving up that easily, shortly maybe!! ;D ;D ;D
Actually I brought this individual figure last year in Luneville, it cost me all of € 2 :o as the flag was broken!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D I do have the full set which I obtained this year. The Gondala in that set is cast complete but the casting is not as good :(
I will definitely put a backing on and use some form of magic sculpt to try to fix it.
Await photo's, this could be a bit of a laugh!!! as I have never had to do this before. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thank you everyone for all the advice, I will try not to let you down ;D
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Easy peasy...
Back the area with .010" plastic sheet or some manila envelope material of (near) the same thickness using super glue or a thin smear of epoxy.
Use blue painters tape to mask around the area and protect the surrounding primered/painted areas.
Mix up some fine grain two-part putty - green stuff/kneadatite, Aves, or Milliput and let it set for about 15 minutes or so.
Keep the piece flat on the table and lay a thin layer of putty into the area, onto, and over the edges and sculpt in the necessary details - folds, creases, etc. Use water to keep the putty from sticking to the tools (I assume you have some sculpting tools?).
Use a flat wet paint brush to further smooth the putty. Be careful not to drag fingers, tools, or beer glasses through the wet putty.
Allow to set up until hard. Placing the piece under a hot light bulb will speed the curing process.
Once the putty is fully cured, you can use fine sandpaper to further smooth any raised imperfections. Clean out any sanding residue, then brush primer onto the repaired surface; this will fill in any pinholes or other sunken imperfections. Allow to dry.
Use very fine sandpaper to further smooth the area. The idea is remove any remaining sanding scratches, paint grains, or other imperfections. Clean out the sanding residue. Much like working on a car body...
Paint.
Less putty and paint curing time, 15 minutes tops.
Post a pic when you're done!
Glen
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Easy Peasy, my Ar*e ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Stuck a small piece of card cut to shape on the back. I then split this in half as it was too thick. As you can see from photo 1, the casting is quite deep.
I then put on a thin layer of liquid putty to bind it all together ( Mr Hobby fine surfacer )
I couldn't find milliput but did find some old Greenstuff from War Hammer. This is more like a rubberised putty and I put this ' into the hole' and tried to shape it. I probably used a bit too much hardener, as it wasn't that easy to shape :-[ Green bit in photo.
I then built up the edges with brushed on Mr.Hobby until it looked half decent ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D a very small bit of sanding and some paint.
At this point I found there to be a small hard lump near the bottom of his coat, so I cut it out and filled again with Surfacer. Not the best job, but once I have painted in folds it should disguise it ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
well that's another fine mess I got out of---just!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Looks very good Nick well done.
John
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It does indeed John! Good work Nick. The next repair will be faster, then you'll start converting flats, then you'll start sculpting your own. Then your journey to the dark side will be complete.
Lord Vader will see you now. Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha...
Glen
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Bravo !!! Well done Nick
I did similar with Charles X for my minor conversions.
Conceptually hard, but at the end .... After the first time is in your back, no reason for not continuing to customize our 30 mm flats !!!
But I'll try also other material than Milliput next time.
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Thank you Gents, a bit dodgy, but the shadow from the jacket will help ;D
Michel, Milliput would have been a lot easier, as it can be pushed around more in the gap.
being rubbery, Greenstuff needs a lot of practice, not sure if wetting with water would have helped!
forgot to use it!!! :-[ ;D ;D ;D
Forget conversions, etc. there are some things I'm not suppose to try ;D ;D ;D ;D
although,------- Never say Never again!!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Nick for future disasters, the way to thin Green Stuff is to use some model airplane glue - water would not work. A little liquid glue and it melts nicely. Here Testors liquid cement with a brush does the trick.
mark 8)
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Now you tell me!!! I got some of that! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers Mark, noted for future ;)
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I did not need any glue for Milliput white, it sticks enough onto the metal...
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Michel,it's not for sticking Greenstuff, that sticks well on it's own. The glue is to melt it slightly so you can push it about and make it more plyable like chewing gum and Milliput.
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OK!!
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Working on shadows and the happy chappy at the front! ;D
One thing, I have painted his trousers and waistcoat in burnt orange and I have been shading it with a bit of white, but it does seem a little bit dead!! :( would it be better if I used a yellow to give it a bit of ' lift ' ?
The black cloak is getting there. You can see a hint of red in the highlight, this is because I never use black straight from the tube, I always mix a colour into it, to give it life.
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Hello Nick,
I use "Neapelgelb hell rötlich" (Naples yellow reddish) for the highlights of burnt sienna and burnt umbra.
Best regards
Michael
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seems good with Naples Yellow, but also Naples Yellow clear (or pale = light beige ...)
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Thank You Michael and Michel, I will definitely give it a go ;) watch this space ;D
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Looking back to my notebook of receipees, way to highlight red are:
- Cadmium Yellow Dark (Dominique), or
- Cadmium yellow Medium, then Permanent Yellow medium (Daniel) or
- Cadmium Yellow Dark (Daniel)
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A bit more ;) slowly getting there with 'The happy Chappy' Tonight I will try to get the flesh started, this will then start bringing it all together
second photo is better!
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It keeps improving step by step !!!
Bravo Nick
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Coming along nicely. But do take another look at the lady's dress inside the deckhouse. Wouldn't it be in deeper shadow than the material that is exposed out the back?
The gondola also needs some cannon... ;D
Glen
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Patience my good Man, patience :)
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Still messing about on the River! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
put a bit of shading on the Flesh, which has brought the figures together a lot better, I will shortly start bringing colour into the Gondola over the weekend.
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Nice! I can just hear the gondoleer singing: 'Just one Cornetto... Give it to me! Delicious ice cream... from Italeeee!
My wife and I still remember that jingle from the late 70s.
Glen
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Nick,
Haste makes waste!
More haste less speed !
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A nice start for an excellent series.
Please bear in mind also that it is night!
The shadow would also change.
H.Tetzels figure series heist not free, engraved by FK.Mohr
"A Night in Venice"!
These figures are a challenge for any outstanding painter.
They make the ... :) :)
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...... Under the moon light !
(http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/19/31/59/25/41612710.jpg)
but not necessarily however ....
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Hello Nick
there are some interesting pictures of a diorama of Fritz Menz on the side of www.Zinnfigurenfreunde-Burg.de
The paintings of flats are old; but the ideas are good. /Ausstellung/Dioramen/ Fritz Menz.
Best regards
Michael
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luckily for me, in the summer it doesn't get dark till about 10.30 pm ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
That's a good site Michael, some nice stuff :)
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@Nick, your observation may be right for England,
but the series is named A night in VENICE ;D
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that's the great thing with flats Joerg, we can use artistic licence.
" An early night in Venice " ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Well then, why not "A beer bash and boating in Birmingham"? ;D
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Although it's at night, there will obviously be street lights on, therefore it won't be a blue undertone, but more an orangey yellow.
I do have a small photo of the original painting, and this is set in early evening, when it is still light out, so technically it can be painted either way. ;)
challenges,challenges, but the, that's the fun!! :-\ ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hello Nick,
if you want to build a diorama, it´s not a big problem with the blue light.
Use a few cold-white SMD´s with a blue acrylic stripe for the late-night modus.
And a lot of warm-white SMD´s for looking details.
You only need two switcher or two battery holder (9 V) with built in switcher.
Best regards
Michael
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Well I managed to get a bit of painting done last week, and this is where I now stand.
Having taken into account what Wolfgang said, I have added Naples Yellow to most of the colours to give a warm evening glow ;)
Started shading on the Gondola, a fair way to go! ;)
Unfortunately, the white lighting has killed the yellowing tones!!! :(