Banner Lothringen

[Hannibal]

This morning Sandor I was reading some 70 pictures on the Facebook of Hasso Graf Bülow about the Murten battle, and discovered these ones !! on his giant diorama:









many more pictures and banners ....

[snagy]

Thank you for the feedbacks, Gentlemen!
And yes - I also felt somerhing is still missing from the flag.
I shall complete it with some "waves"!

Have a nice day!!!
Sandor

[Hannibal]

may be a bit like this .... ??

[Christoph]

Hello Sandor,

Nice painting.
Hannibal is right, painting banners and flags is one of the  harder jobs of the business.
You are getting better each time.
Next time you should ad some light and shadows to the base colour. That makes the banner more lively.
Christoph

[Hannibal]

wOUAWWW !!!


This technical work is wonderful!.
I am learning how to paint a 30mm flat and you create new bannners and flags, drawaing and painting them on scale !!!


I have a lot of admis-ration and respect for this!!
I am working on Conquistadors now, there are one or two flags, in several weeks ....


Qurstion: Do you realize the flag on a larger scale (drawing and painting), then reduce the size to scale befopre printing?

[John Alberts]

Never give up!  Very nice

[snagy]

Thank you Sandor and John.


@: Sandor: the banner you ask for is the personal banner of duke René of Lorraine. I remember you showed your figure here and it didn't look bad.
The scoure I used was a painting in the Berner Schilling Chronik. See here:


https://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/de/bbb/Mss-hh-I0003/769/0/Sequence-49

I have no informations about the reverse side of the banner so I painted it mirrowed.

In fact the banners of the allies of the swiss are not very well documented in modern scoures as the burgundy banners are. So my main scoure for that are the the illustrated "Chroniks" written by Diebold Schilling in the late 15th century. You can search him at Wiki. There you find links to the most of these books.

Another banner I have taken from this scoure is the one on the sixth picture from top. It belongs to the bishop of Strassburg.

Christoph

Having seen the rendering of this banner by Christoph - and still quite unsatisfied with my own work - I decided to paint the reverse side of the figure according to the above referred source of Christoph (other words I "copied" his paintwork).


And thank you for your help, Christoph, once again!


So here it is:





One remark: I painted the figure itself quite time ago, so the armor is not the MNM technics - but I left it as it was.


Best regards-
Sandor

[Christoph]

Just another small thing about the banner Hannibal showed: it showes the cross of Jerusalem, with René  II. intecreated in his coat of arms, when his grandfather René I. (le bon roi René) died in 1480. So I would not use this cross on René's banner for the burgundy war which ended in 1477.


Christoph

[Christoph]

Hello Sandor,
Normally for that time the reverse side shows the same but mirrowed. Burgundy banners even had the writting mirrowed (I was told by Mr Lehnart when I asked him about besause I didn't found any scource for that)


The discription of Blum may be a mistake. Rene joined the swiss at Murten with 300 mounted men at arms. Together with some other mounted troops from Alsace and Austria they made up a ca. 1000 strong body of horsemen which attacked the burgundy between the swiss advace guard and their main battle


Christoph

[snagy]

So this is what I could make out of it (Annuntiatio)!





Actually - taking into the consideration also the small dimensions - it is not a really pattern for 30 mm figure.
Anyway, it was quite a challenge for my skillset.


However I would have two more questions to find answers:


1. According to my knowledge the duke of Lorraine (Renee II. von Lothringen) joined Louis XI. in 1474, consequently he should have fought against Karl der Kühne in the battle of Murten in 1476. In spite of this in Blum's Schlacht bei Murten set the naming of the figure is: "Berittener Burgunder, Banner Lothringen" (mounted burgund knight with the banner Lorraine). Maybe it is a mistake?


2. What could have been on the reverse side of the banner?


Any ideas?
Have a nice evening!
Sandor

[snagy]

Thank you for the help, Michel!
Sandor

[Hannibal]

not easy to find on the net without consulting physical archives

[Hannibal]

but .... is this not a flat of 30mm size ? with a flag or less than 2 cm, looked at after without electronic microscope, to verify the colour of the eyes of the characters on the flag
    (I'm joking of course but shall search too)

[snagy]

Friends,

I would need a better picture - or a picture of a painted figure - of the Banner Lothringen, see below:



 
I could hunt up only this above depiction but here the colors and the layout is quite vague - hope there is existing a better rendition.


I would need the info for the paintwork of figure MU 167 of series Schlacht of Murten:





Thank you!
Have a nice weekend!!


Sandor