Author Topic: First flats  (Read 783 times)

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8rad

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Re: First flats
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2018, 02:49:59 PM »

Hi Brad, good to see you having a go and I have been watching how your getting on.
I too have tried, first with Plaster and the best I found was "Moulding Powder"  from South Western Industrial Plasters or a good art shop, easy to use and good for engraving, plus it takes the tin well, the Quad was one of my first



Keep at it you can do it !! oh just one more thing heat the mould in the oven before pouring your tin.     


Thanks guys been looking into mould powder & dental stone both look to blow potter plaster out the water for quality and hardness. Going to give böckchen's idea with the lego, mirror & dental stone a go, but need to figure out how to print the outline of the engraved mini on the reverse block. Im pretty sure the soot trick used on slate wont work. Brian your first quad mini looks really good, how did you do the reverse side.

Brian

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Re: First flats
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2018, 04:05:52 PM »

Hi Brad, good to see you having a go and I have been watching how your getting on.
I too have tried, first with Plaster and the best I found was "Moulding Powder"  from South Western Industrial Plasters or a good art shop, easy to use and good for engraving, plus it takes the tin well, the Quad was one of my first



Keep at it you can do it !! oh just one more thing heat the mould in the oven before pouring your tin.       
2D Figurines

8rad

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Re: First flats
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2018, 02:45:05 PM »
Im pretty good at crafty things, but dang these things are hard. Got pretty close using potters plaster but even with vents the metal just does not flow for me. Took a bit of a side quest in modellers wax with the idea of carving the mini then making the mold using it, still on going. However it just feels better reverse carving into a mold.


As for the mold mold used a few different things from silocone to 3d printed deconstruct able frames but getting that super tight and even fit the slate molds have is also a summit of its own. Moreover plaster is messy as hell, been on the wrong end of the mrs wrath a few times to the the state of the shed  :D [size=78%]. [/size]


Ideally i just want to buy smooth even blocks and spend the time learning engraving. But that said its also a pretty good feeling when you first press in some plasticine to reveal a neat looking wee figure as testament to what amounts to an occult ritual getting there.   

BobLeighton

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Re: First flats
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2018, 07:48:59 AM »

One thing. if using plaster you MUST make sure that it is all dry.
If you have even the hint of moisture in the mould when you pour hot metal in, you will get a blowback of hot metal through the pouring vent or air vents, this can be disastrous and very painful.
When pouring metal never look into or peer over the vent..
You need to exercise extreme care when pouring hot metal and make sure that you wear safety goggles and gloves.
regards
 Bob

BobLeighton

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Re: First flats
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2018, 07:20:25 AM »

If you are using dental plaster which you used to be able to buy at all branches of Boots, not sure now, if you look around the shelves  of the major retailers you will see that items that don't sell fast or items that only have a small profit margin are disappearing fast.
Once the plaster has been poured into the mould it needs to be shaken or stirred at the top to try and get as much air out of the mixture, air equals bubbles which equals holes in the plaster and also delays the setting time of the plaster. Used to use these type of moulds to war gaming figures in the fifties. If you can find some of the early War gaming books, they might contain some mention of the use of plaster.
Regards
If you cant steal Lego bricks from your children Plasticine is a useful alternative
 Bob

böckchen

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Re: First flats
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2018, 03:18:13 AM »
Hi Guys,
First of all thank you for having the courage to prove yourself as a serious.

Gypsum stones are a good cheap start. But these should produce them first.

- optimally use 1 glass plate or mirror
- with LEGO bricks you can put the size together.
- use pourable dental plaster, optimally, it is a hard plaster with few air holes

You can also use cast ceramic

everything else I leave to your talent to teach from the experience. :o :) :)
best regards
Wolfgang


BobLeighton

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Re: First flats
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2018, 03:41:38 AM »

Hope this might help, found it while looking for something else.
Always the way
regards
 Bob

8rad

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Re: First flats
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2018, 09:10:27 AM »
the holes were buried so that the air can escape from the mold. This is done where no air ducts can be pulled out. In the holes wooden sticks are put so that no tin can run into the hole.


Ahh makes sense, spent today casting enough plaster blocks for 3 figures. Also taking advantage of the sun we are getting to dry them out. So hopefully go to start a engraving tomorrow in to early next week. Plenty pewter ready to go =)

Gerald

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Re: First flats
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2018, 12:03:27 AM »
the holes were buried so that the air can escape from the mold. This is done where no air ducts can be pulled out. In the holes wooden sticks are put so that no tin can run into the hole.

8rad

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Re: First flats
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2018, 02:25:34 PM »
Hi


Brill thanks for these, the link at the end was most helpful. I see the basic workflow now, not sure what her was doing at 1.30 in the second section (drilling small holes and putting something in). But other than that looking at his tools i have many tools and engraving pens that look the same. I just thought were they for wood and have been using them wrong.


Going to retry with harder potters plaster to simulate slate (and practice) before getting the real stuff. Thinking also to 3d print a 1mm thick silhouette for judging the initial depth. I imagine its easy to take out to much in one area making the overall result uneven.


Anyways huge thanks for the pointers and links, pretty much going to have a go over the weekend. 
 

Gerald

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Re: First flats
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2018, 09:26:22 AM »
Now the suitable tool is actually made for goldsmiths.
Bollstichel the size 1,2,4,6 and the same as Flachstichel should be sufficient for the beginning.
many engravers will eventually make their "own" tool out of steel needles, etc.
Here is an address in Germany where you can order tool. http://www.zujeddeloh.de/artikel540.html#a2608 Certainly there are also dealers in the UK.You can order slate here. It is very good and cheap engraving slate. It is the best price I know in Germany.
http://www.raizinn.de/ say here Greetings from me  ;)
and something else to watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrp5j_KrbAU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG0KKm1qU9E

http://www.zinnfiguren-rieger.de/Frame-Set%20firma.php?unterseite=gravuren.php&PHPSESSID_netsh10540=3ecb0335b1144390639888c581f29fee

I hope this helps youGruß Gerald

8rad

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Re: First flats
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2018, 02:24:20 AM »
Hello,
Plaster is actually quite good. Cast ceramic should be better suited.
Slate is not the same as slate. Roof slate, floor slate, etc. is not suitable.
If you want I can tell you an address where you can order good engraved slate in Germany, at a reasonable price. (I think the shipping will be more expensive than the slate). I can also give you an address where you can order the tool for the engraving.

Greetings Gerald

Thanks Gerald that would be really appreciated =). Shame I have a big pile of roof slate which I have been experimenting on with power engravers and wood tools. No idea there was a special tool, hoping to learn much more from the art of the tin figure when it arrives. May be more expensive plaster would be better than the bog standard plaster of Paris I tried before. I have access to a kiln so could make the tougher fired stuff.
 

Gerald

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Re: First flats
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2018, 11:54:49 PM »
Hello,
Plaster is actually quite good. Cast ceramic should be better suited.
Slate is not the same as slate. Roof slate, floor slate, etc. is not suitable.
If you want I can tell you an address where you can order good engraved slate in Germany, at a reasonable price. (I think the shipping will be more expensive than the slate). I can also give you an address where you can order the tool for the engraving.

Greetings Gerald

marko

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Re: First flats
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2018, 04:13:13 PM »
Hi Brad welcome!


You might try here:


http://www.intflatfigures.org/index.php?topic=1809.msg11323#msg11323


Brian King has recently trod this path of discovery and can offer some advice.


mark  8)
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8rad

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First flats
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 03:07:53 PM »
Not been on for a while, other projects etc. Recently bought some flats on ebay and was super surprised at the finery and detail. Also was expecting them to be thicker but they really are almost as thin as paper. Being a publisher of paper minis really keen to make some of these. Literally have a copy of "the art of the tin figure" in the post which is apparently required reading.


Tried engraving on a number of materials ,plaster, fimo greenstuff etc but sanded down roof slates feel the best so far. Even tried 3d printing but the res is nowhere near. Are there any engravers on the boards what slate do you use and where do you acquire it if i may ask. Plaster was recommended before but found it too crumbly.     

 

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