Author Topic: Metallic or not metallic  (Read 5410 times)

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PJDeluhery

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2013, 01:23:42 PM »
I agree with Jerry and the painted metals (NMM) group. I have not seen (which I hasten to add does not mean it does not exist!!) a figure painted in metals that stands up to one painted with the NMM  technique. By "seen" I mean "seen in person." Pictures can fool the eye, and I have a hard time separating the ones below - which I'm sure look quite different in person. To me, the "reality" of the metal finish looks odd when compared to the painted finish on the rest of the piece.
 
Also, I agree that it is not necessarily the technique alone, as the use and mastery of the technique, that makes a difference. I dare say an accomplished artist could use either and render a masterpiece. 
 
That said, do what pleases you.
 

Nick, just tell your daughter that silver is just shiny gray! ...and ....Hang on to those car keys, amigo!!
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If the world is wrong; then right your own self...Brother Dave Gardner

Nicholas Ball

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2013, 07:43:37 AM »
Funny you should say that Willie, she said she'd give me lessons for exactly those 2 things!!!! :o  :D :D :D :D :D :D

Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2013, 07:20:54 PM »

 Hi Nick. You are lucky she could have laugh at you and then asked for money and the keys to the car ;D. I agree with you it is what makes you happy in painting. Remember metal needs to be polished everyday. Now for any former Royal and US Navy member in the Club. Its Brass O for all. I want to see my face in that Bell sailor ::) Willie

gerry Larkin

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2013, 12:24:38 PM »
what colours are you using on your metals Nick? i find, transparent  colours work better on brass and yellow metals. Rembrant transparent oxide yellow's superb stuff mixed with various browns and even green! you can get a nice spectrum of colours,For white metal the more blue you put into the mix the more crome the finish will be, i start with flake white and add various darks in paynes grey/ and a tad of Prussian blue, little daps at a  time, even the adding of colbolt violet works as well, depends what effects your after.. but I'm sure your get there!

Nicholas Ball

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 03:54:55 AM »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Bo**ocks !!      ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

errant49

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 02:59:34 AM »
Remember : children always tell the truth !
Eric

Nicholas Ball

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2013, 01:27:29 PM »
Well as a brilliant painter!!!! ::) ;D ;D ;D I am doing the serving platter and lid on Tweedledum and Tweedledee and using oil, not metallics.

I thought I was doing OK until my daughter came in and said  " why have you painted them grey!!!!"

When I said it was silver she just  looked at me and burst out laughing!!!!!  :-[ :-[

Baby step's, Baby step's  -------   it'll be fine  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Charles

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 12:24:37 PM »
Like Nick I bought some flats from Jim Woodley's collection. Some of them were fully or part painted using metallic gold. I have to say the effect was not good, the metal areas had a totally different quality to them which made them stand out from the general effect of the figure, almost not a part of it, which detracted from the harmony of the finished item. I will be persevering with the non-metallic paints myself.

gerry Larkin

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2013, 07:53:25 PM »
I,m 100%  NM on flats off any size, the rendition of a well painted  simulated NM effect is what flats and there effect is all about for me. But on round figure i differ depends on the size and effect. what i find on flats without sounding   wrong is the effect of simulated metals, OK this to some can be done in printed inks etc, but it looks to my eye as  flat! nmm is hard to achieve but worth the effect IMHO, look at the work of  artists like Rembrant   etc.  At Kulmbach i was so taken back with the work of Roland  Simon, check his NMM  effects on flats, Now tell me you can do that with Printers ink etc
you cant! that to me is the metal effect I  personally like to see in flat form, but every one has his own ideas of what is right, practice and practice is what it takes the simple mix of colours and observation is
what it is all about for me  but again that's just my opinion!

Glen

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2013, 06:17:31 PM »
Well, first off, I'm with Nick. Use whatever makes you happy and is pleasing to your eye. Acrylics, oils, printer's inks, hobby enamels - they're all good.

Eric, when you say "I think that silver or gold metals could be paint with metallics and silver or god laces or fabrics could be paint with oil", are the 'metallics' metallic oil, enamel, or acrylic paint? I'm just not clear here...

I started off using Humbrol, Pactra, and Testors enamels on what few figures I painted back in the 70s. After a long hiatus, I picked it up again in the late 90s - maybe about 2000 - using Humbrol, but switched to Andrea acrylics shortly thereafter (another story). I found the Andrea paints acceptable for most applications except their metallics. They were thick, lumpy and didn't seem to brush very well. Thinning them just seemed to make the pigments settle out faster. They also tended to settle rapidly in the bottle where the pigments would fuse into a nearly unmovable mass. I discovered Vallejo acrylics were better and augmented my Andrea stash with them. I picked up on Reaper acrylics about 5-6 years ago and haven't looked back. I use the metallic acrylics for chain mail and yellow metals without issue. For white metal plate armor and weapons' blades, I buff the metal with a motor-tool, a napped buffing drum, and jeweler's rouge. The polished metal is then stained with black-brown oil paint, which is allowed to sit for about 15 minutes before being wiped off. Areas that catch more light are buffed more and have more of the oil paint wiped off. There have been exceptions, but I generally stick with these techniques for rounds and flats from 54mm and up. That's just me...

Over the years, I've seen no shortage of beautifully painted metals (along with an assortment of clunkers) using both metallic paints and/or non-metallic metal (NMM) techniques. I don't generally attribute this to the medium, but rather the painter's skill in using the medium at that time. As we all know, there is no substitute for picking up a brush and practicing. Where the medium itself might into play depends on the quality of paint and the size of the metallic pigments in the paint. Large-grained pigments give the metal a grainy look (another issue with Andrea*). The smaller the pigment, the less grainy the end result (one reason why printer's inks were so popular). Pigment size is magnified on smaller scales - paint that looks fine on 70mm pieces may not look so good on 30mm pieces.

As for NMM techniques - using an assortment of grays, blues, and white to render white metals and browns, yellows, and white to render yell metals, my mental jury is still out. For the most part, when properly done (practice, remember), it looks fine, my eye sees metal, but my brain sees 'paint'. It's not metal, but a rendering of metal, much like you would see if an artist was rendering an illustration of sword blade - or a chrome car bumper. To my eye, well-executed NMM works best on 30mm pieces.

I suppose I could blab on some more, but it's after 5 PM and dinner is calling. I am never late for dinner...

Peace out, yo

Glen
 ;)


*It should be noted that after I stopped using Andrea, they apparently improved the manufacturing formula/process. I have not used the new paints.

alfsboy

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2013, 05:21:29 PM »
Can I throw in polishing  armour  before priming the figure,just priming the un armoured bits   and then a thin clear/black/blue  coat with perhaps some  subtle highlighting over the armour .I dont have many painted flats now as sold a whole load in the eighties so cant give you an example.
Martin

aba

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2013, 04:35:33 PM »
Dear Eric,

of course anybody can do as he likes, but to my opinion metallic paints can sometimes be more convincing than "painted" metal.

As "painting" metal is far more time consuming than using (shaded) metallic paints my personal preference is going today more to the second method. Nevertheless I have (some time ago) been "painting" metal, too.


Nicholas Ball

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2013, 12:56:08 PM »
Someone will probably put me right here, but I was lucky enough to get a few of  Jim Woodleys half painted chariots when he passed and these were painted in metallic's. Therefore,  did he use this as a base for the oil paint to brighten them up???

I may  try this, it sounds interesting ;)

errant49

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2013, 12:50:42 PM »
You'r right Nick
The photos reduce the differences a lot
At real sight the brightness of metallics is really interesting
Anyway it's a question of taste
Eric

marko

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Re: Metallic or not metallic
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2013, 12:50:00 PM »
Always an interesting debate….


While I too fall into there is no right approach it seems to be a matter of taste…I seem to lean towards the oils only approach.  Metallics always seem to jarring when you view them close up.  However, as Douchkine and you are proving Eric they can be used to beautiful affect. 


I have a few of Jim Woodley's figures where he uses oils to beautiful affect to simulate steel.  Sadly despite a large number of knights I am still just pushing paint and am not quite happy with the results yet.  Coincidentally I am working on some Segom knights of the Golden Fleece today.


Mark  8)
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