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Flat Figures Painters Forum => Figure Identification/Search => Topic started by: Isabelle on October 05, 2017, 03:49:18 AM

Title: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Isabelle on October 05, 2017, 03:49:18 AM
Hello friends,
Do you know if a flat like the framed drawing's wheel had exist ?
And if it had exist do you know where I could find it ?
Thanks for your help

Amitiés
Isabelle
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Hannibal on October 05, 2017, 05:07:01 AM
Never seen somewhere ... but this is not a exclusion statement just personal in y flats findings...
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Isabelle on October 05, 2017, 05:20:12 AM
Thanks Michel for tour answer  :D
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Joerg on October 05, 2017, 06:52:34 AM
@Isabelle, a roughly similar figfure does exist:
It is oart of a set "King Otto 1st biulding the walls of Magdeburg [my hometown] in 960"
That means, the working men have no headgear and free chests (but trousers)

http://kulturserver-san.de/home/scheibezinn/ind_d60.htm?http://kulturserver-san.de/home/scheibezinn/d60_md.htm

The editor is Erdmann Hesse.

If you are interested, give me a (quick) response; I will meet him tomorrow.
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Isabelle on October 05, 2017, 09:36:01 AM
Hello Joerg  :D
Yes !!!!! I'm very interresting Yes !! I'm very good news ! Yes I'm Ok.  ;D ;D ;D
It's not a problem if the costum is not completly similar.
I've several sets with differents clothes but who can be together for a same age.
Thanks a lot Joeg !! it's really a grandiose new  :D :D :D :D
Amitiés
Isabelle
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Joerg on October 07, 2017, 04:41:08 AM
@Isabelle,

I am very sorry, but I was completely wrong:
The crane is NOT with a hamster wheel.
It has a simple turning axe with spokes.
The picture shows a similar technical contraption from a set of Berliner Zinnfiguren
https://www.zinnfigur.com/Flachfiguren/Unbemalt/Kulturgeschichte/Mittelalter/Gruendung-Berlins-durch-Albrecht-den-Baeren.html

The Hesse crane is from that kind too.
In comparision to Berliner Zinnfiguren, you could order the Hesse crane as a single figure, not the whole set.

BUT I think it fair, that somewhere must exist exactly that hamster wheele; I have a picture of medieval building activites, that shows it.

So, it is up to you  - order a crane without wheel from Hesse oder Berliner  (with Hesse  I can help)

or

waiting for the results of "wheel search"  (I would start a research immediatly at another forum)

Your decision  :)
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Isabelle on October 08, 2017, 02:18:15 AM
Hello Joerg  :)

Yes, I'd seen it wasn't a whell but after my answer !!  ;D I was hurry to give you an answer because very happy to have find this wheel  ;D ;D .
Yes I'll wait for the search's answers ; it's better, because I have all the Berliner Zinnfiguren's set and I' prefer to have styles of new flats  ;) .
Thanks very much for yours searchs and if you find a new flat for this diorama I'll be very happy  :D
Amitiés
Isabelle
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Joerg on October 09, 2017, 02:13:47 AM
@Isabelle,

an interim report:
A hamster whell flat figure is not found by now.
Here is something similar (IN A DIFFERENT SCALE)
https://www.fredericus-rex.eu/de/Massstab-1-72-Figuren-Gebaeude-Pflanzen-Fahnen/Nach-Epochen---Sachgebieten/1-72-Figuren-Zubehoer/Green-Line--GL-ZUB-024-Mittelalterlicher-Kran-II-1-72.html

https://www.fredericus-rex.eu/de/Massstab-1-72-Figuren-Gebaeude-Pflanzen-Fahnen/Nach-Epochen---Sachgebieten/1-72-Figuren-Zubehoer/Green-Line--GL-ZUB-031-Mittelalterlicher-Kran-1-72.html

I will continue my search.
J.
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Isabelle on October 09, 2017, 05:06:07 AM
Hello Joerg,

Yes it's just what I'd like to have  :D :D :D :D
A little advice : do you think if it's not the same size, I could use it for 30 mm as I would put IN the wheel a flat representing a man wallking inside  to operate the wheel).
Thanks very much for your advice  ;) :D
Amitiés
Isabelle
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Glen on October 09, 2017, 01:24:49 PM
Well, this might be heresy, but the wheel and any other parts of it seem to be something you could easily scratchbuild with sheet plastic strips with an engraved wood grain. Take a walk on the wild side...  8)
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Joerg on October 09, 2017, 02:15:36 PM
@Isabelle, here you can see the whell I still try to find for you.
I have no idea, if I will be successful within a handful of days.

So, if you really want to have a diorama with such a wheel, you should indeed think, if you could build it yourself from thin wood or plastic.
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: BobLeighton on October 10, 2017, 04:45:54 AM

Lolly sticks are the answer, strong enough to be cut large enough to work a wheel design on ,you will have to build the wheel is sections obviously.
Suggest that you look on Pinterest and find  the modellers sites they have views of fantastic model buildings on there, especially medieval you might even find a design.
You can find bags of lolly sticks or there equivalent in Hobby craft shops, you should have some sort of equivalent.
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: BobLeighton on October 10, 2017, 04:56:09 AM

Isabelle
If you look at the web site "Ozark medieval castle guide" you will find that they built a squirrel crane based on Roman design, a simple request for help might bring you more information.
Also if you google medieval squirrel crane images you get some illustrations which might help.
Also I think that the London Museum might be able to help with information.
It never hurts to ask they can only say no
regards Bob
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Joerg on October 10, 2017, 11:37:31 AM
The final answer  :(

The mould was owned by Mr Scharlowsky, who has passed away.
His widow claimed, that the moulds are in her garage,
but neither she nor her sun have time or mood to cast.

So, Isabelle, build the wheel yourself or decide for another technical contraption.

Joerg
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Joerg on October 11, 2017, 02:58:15 AM
@Isabelle,
never say never !

It turned up this item
http://www.thomarillion.de/?language=en&page=artikel_detail&id=798

develloped for table top gaming, that means for 28 to 30 mm figure size.
This would fit your requirements best.
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: BobLeighton on October 11, 2017, 04:37:33 AM

Isabella
There are some medieval Mining Figures listed on Ebay.de by freidragon under the title  Berglau I'm Mittelate.
They might be suitable for your use
Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Isabelle on October 11, 2017, 01:19:48 PM
Hello friends  :D

Yes Glen you are right it will be more easy to build this medieval crane  ;) .
thanks  Bob I'll go to ebay to see this figures  :)
Thanks very much but.... but ....  ;D ;D Joerg have found the solution.
You had to do a lot of research to find this adress !  :D but you have found it !
And this time is the right one  :D :D . I've just seen the web page "Thomarillion" fantastic !!
Amitiés
Isabelle
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Kulmbach on November 20, 2017, 05:15:05 AM
Have you come to an end about the "Whell squirrel? I found this figure in an old catalouge of mine. Riebold was the editor.
Jan
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Joerg on November 20, 2017, 10:16:46 AM
@Jan, thank you for this information!
Now the only task is to research, where the Reibold moulds have vanished  ;)

Just these days I am assembling the "Thomarillion" 3dimensional crane.

I dare to say that the work itself has no similarity to Spacacraft development,
but I feel, that my idea, to "transform" a 3D item into a contraption, that is somehow more flat (to fit into a flat world)
will not lead to a sufficient end (just experienced this with a small bridge) .

So - find the Reibold figures or build a 3D crane, that's it.
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Isabelle on November 22, 2017, 04:10:34 AM
Wonderfull  Jan !!! It ' s just what I search !!!!
Now we know it exist  :D  and now i try to find this mould  :D  But where is it ... if someone have an idea it will be with great pleasure  :D .
Amitiés
Isabelle
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Isabelle on November 22, 2017, 06:33:54 AM
Hello Joerg thanks very much for your work. When i ' ll be at home i' il send you an answer after i' ll have made traduction of some words  ;D  my english Is not enough to be able understand all your post  :D
Isabelle
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Isabelle on November 23, 2017, 01:15:50 AM
Hello friends,
I'll send a letter to Mrs Angela Krappe who has moulds of Reibolds and I'll send a mail to Offinzin Fleesensee who sell Reibolds' flats. When I'll have answerI'll post the answers  ;) .
Amitiés
Isabelle
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Isabelle on November 23, 2017, 01:39:17 AM
Hello Jan,
Could you send me by mail your catalogue if it's possible for you ? It would be very kind of you.  I'm very interesting by the other Middle Age Reibold's figures ?
Thanks very much  ;)
Amitiés
Isabelle
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Joerg on November 23, 2017, 02:09:04 AM
@ISabell, there is no sense in writing Mde Krappe:
I was constantly in contact with her because of the crane.  She has none and has no further idea (I did not follow by now),
where it can be .
Possibly the Fleesensee trace is more promising.  ;)
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Isabelle on November 23, 2017, 04:50:45 AM
Ah ok thanks very much Joerg  :)  yes i ' ll contact fleesensee only  ;)
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Joerg on November 26, 2017, 08:15:43 AM
So, I did it:
I ordered and tranformed the assembling kit (it is now a bit narrower)
Because I have no medieval figures in stock, I added some 18th century figures
to clarify the size.
The (short) rope is sufficient for approx. 31 cm working height, that means circa 17 metres.
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Isabelle on November 26, 2017, 09:28:34 AM
Hi joerg  :)

What is the width's base (the thickness) of the wheel squirel ?
It seems to be very good for 30 mm. In your picture the result is not shocking between 3D and 2D's figures.
I think if I don't arrive to find the mould of the flat I'll take your solution of this wheel squirel.
What do you thing about the size of the wheel squirel ? Is it proportional at the 30 mm's figures ?
Title: Re: Middle Age's wheel squirrel
Post by: Joerg on November 26, 2017, 10:39:46 AM
@Isabelle,
the wheel has a diametre of 72 mm
the base is 58 mm width (as it comes with the kit),
Plus 2*18 mm for the side beams.
I made it 14 mm narrower, keeping the wheel in original size. If I would like it
even more narrow, I could cut the planks for the wheel with only a sharp Scalpel)

The wheel crane can fit good with 30mm figures
if you'll give it a central position in the display.
If you intend to have it rather in the background,
it will be "too heavy".


O.K.
Meanwhile I had to learn, that my way of thinking was wrong:
Winding the rope on the outer wheel would cost too much force from the men in the wheel.
To use it senseful, one has to wind the rope on the wheel's axle / axis.
(the few historic pictures show exacly this)

That means - I have to withdraw my alterations, the width of the whole contraption will rise substantially
and -my rating- the kit ist not suitable for using it with flat figures.

(And this means, that the Reibold figure is technically wrong)

Sorry, Isabelle :(