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Flat Figures Painters Forum => Figure Identification/Search => Topic started by: Richard on December 04, 2018, 05:03:30 AM

Title: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: Richard on December 04, 2018, 05:03:30 AM
Hello !
Who could provide me the list of the figures of Crécy series and the one of Tannenberg series (with the drawings if possible) ?
Best regards.Richard
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: Erich on December 04, 2018, 06:04:23 AM
You can find some wonderful figures from Wolfgang Friedrich here...
see Crecy and Grunwald
http://www.zinnfigurenfreunde-leipzig.de/her/wf/wf-2.htm
and some more Figures at Schmalkalder Zinnfiguren
https://www.schmalkalder-zinnfiguren.de/30-mm-flachfiguren/mittelalter/

Erich
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: Richard on December 04, 2018, 06:38:10 AM
Thanks Erich,
I am searching for these old series both engraved by L Frank, because I have got some figures and I would like complete them and swapp the spare ones.
I know Wolfgang Friedrich. He is a very good engraver, nowadays one amongst the best. I collect his figures of the 30 Years War, particularly these after the drawings by A Wilke.
Richard
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: Erich on December 04, 2018, 11:45:55 AM
Richard,  unfortunately I don`t know who has the moulds today -
at the moment some of them are offered on german ebay -   crecy  -   ordensritter - polen
Erich
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: johnb on December 04, 2018, 08:34:44 PM
Richard,


Scoltz/Berliner Zinnfiguren have some sets that look like Muller figures however they frequently they don't advertise the old Editor.  See for example -


 https://www.zinnfigur.com/en/Flat-Figures/Blank-Figures/Military-History/Middle-Ages/Special-Series/English-Knights-at-Crecy-1346.html?force_sid=ukaob9h4vmuvibom5hrg8qur72


This is just a hunch though as I haven't seem many pictures of the original figures.


regards
John
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: Richard on December 05, 2018, 04:55:00 AM
Thanks Erich. I'll visit the German Ebay site.

Thanks Jonh. The first set dysplayed by Scholtz are well the searched figures for the Crécy battle. I 'll verify the rest.
Richard
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: tinman on December 08, 2018, 10:17:41 AM
The earliest list I have of Muller's "Battle of Crecy" is from the 1970s, when the writer/journalist Erwin Ortmann owned the molds. The set contained 26 English figures, 17 French figures, and 6 Geonese crossbow men. A total of 49 figures. Muller edited a number of additional figures that could be used for the series. I'm guessing that Otto Gottstein used more than the 49 figures when he built his famous "Battle of Crecy" diorama.


I attach the list and pictures of the figures. My apologies for the poor quality of the photos as they were shot quickly with a cell phone.



Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: Richard on December 09, 2018, 04:37:22 AM
Thanks Tinman !
Don't worry for the quality of the pictures as they are well readable. Moreover, I have learnt anything I din't known and it is very interesting.

Richard
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: johnb on December 10, 2018, 01:22:54 AM
Hi Richard,


I may be totally wrong here but have a look at these for Tannenberg, they have a look about them -


https://www.zinnfigur.com/en/Flat-Figures/Blank-Figures/Military-History/Middle-Ages/Knights/Teutonic-Knights-at-Tannenberg-halt.html?force_sid=g7rhccton0tj9qvfbf4vkmc7q7
https://www.zinnfigur.com/en/Flat-Figures/Blank-Figures/Military-History/Middle-Ages/Knights/Teutonic-Knights-at-Tannenberg-charging.html?force_sid=g7rhccton0tj9qvfbf4vkmc7q7
https://www.zinnfigur.com/en/Flat-Figures/Blank-Figures/Military-History/Middle-Ages/Knights/Lithuanian-Knights-at-Tannenberg.html?force_sid=g7rhccton0tj9qvfbf4vkmc7q7


Good luck with your searches,


John
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: Richard on December 10, 2018, 05:29:59 AM
Thanks John !
You can't be wrong as we see  figures belonging to the Tannenberg battle series on the pictures of BZ site. Unfortunately Scholtz doesn't give the references of the figures.
Richard
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: tinman on December 10, 2018, 09:37:05 AM
You're welcome....There are two more figures that Hans Muller made for the "Crecy Series" that were not included in Ortmann's list:


MR 91: Mounted French Bishop with lance, galloping. This figure was meant to represent the Arch-bishop of Nimes and/or the Arch-bishop of Sens. Both men are included in the chronicler Roberto de Avesbury's list of dead French knights whose bodies were found on the Crecy battlefield. Ortmann did not include the figure because he did not own the mold. The figure was mistaken for a "Crusades" figure and sold to Fritz Menz. The mold is currently with K. Howey.


MR 96: Mounted English bowman, halted. Ortmann owned this mold so it is baffling why he did not include the figure as part of the series.


It is reasonable to conclude that all the figures MR79-MR110 were made by Hans Muller for Otto Gottstein's Battle of Crecy diorama.



Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: johnb on December 12, 2018, 01:47:49 AM
For interest's sake these are some of the French Crecy knight by Muller -
https://www.zinnfigur.com/en/Flat-Figures/Blank-Figures/Military-History/Middle-Ages/Special-Series/French-Knights-at-Crecy-1346.html

Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: Richard on December 14, 2018, 07:55:06 AM
Hello Tinman,
Thanks for sharring your knowledges of the Crécy set. They are very useful for me as I am trying to put my series in order.
Richard
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: Mike G on February 17, 2019, 05:43:51 PM
Hi Richard - I still have many of the original Muller Tannenberg series if you're interested. I bought a huge collection of them 20 years or so ago and I could never paint all of them. They're old castings. The Friedrich engraved figures are also excellent but just not the same as the old Frank figures.
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: beloc zoc on February 22, 2019, 07:22:47 AM

MR 91: Mounted French Bishop with lance, galloping. This figure was meant to represent the Arch-bishop of Nimes and/or the Arch-bishop of Sens. Both men are included in the chronicler Roberto de Avesbury's list of dead French knights whose bodies were found on the Crecy battlefield.



Hello tinman,
this information is very interesting. MP 91 is possible to paint as "Hermann I. von Buxthoeven, Bishop from Dorpat (Tartu)" in my opinion. Now I searched with google for archi-bishop of nimes and for archi-bishop of sens.
I searched for the name and the arms and colors for these person in order to paint these flat again. But I don´t found these persons. Is everyone knowing more ?
Best regards Henry
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: tinman on February 23, 2019, 09:39:43 AM
The Archbishop of Sens, Guillaume de Melun, did not die at Crecy as reported by Robert de Avesbury. (Many modern books continue to repeat this fiction.) The Archbishop lived to fight another day and was taken prisoner, along with French King John II, by the English at the Battle of Poitiers in 1356. He died in 1376. His coat of arms is attached.


An online source reports that three other French Bishops fought at the Battle of Crecy--Aimar (Adhemar)de Montiel, Bishop of Metz; Hugues d'Arcy, Bishop of Laon; and Bernard Le Brun, Bishop of Noyon. The coats of arms for two of these Bishops are attached.


http://www.angelfire.com/empire/medheraldry/webpage6.html
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: Richard on February 24, 2019, 06:21:43 AM
Hello Mike,
Sorry for my delayed answer. Last week I was not at home as it is a time of holidays in France. Thanks for your proposition but myself I have many spare figures of theses sets. I am searching for the list with if possible the drawings of the Tannenberg set. If you could provide me that, maybe I might complete my series. Could you send me a picture ?Best regards.Richard
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: oleg on February 24, 2019, 06:36:34 PM
Gentlemen,
this is a list of Crecy and Tannenberg series if you need
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: Richard on February 25, 2019, 03:31:02 AM
Very thanks Oleg !

Just a last ask but you have already a beer glas for 2019 Kulmbach Fair.Who edits these figures now ?
Richard
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: oleg on February 25, 2019, 08:25:34 AM
Hi Richard,
for the last 10 I believe years they were in possession of Hans Swann. I always meeting him at Kulmbach and we know each other very well. Unfortunately I have no contact address or e-mail from him. These sheets are from Hans' catalogue.
Oleg
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: merlino on February 25, 2019, 10:14:58 AM
sorry, but I do not understand.....The Tannenberg and Crecy serie of MÜller - Frank are available or are not they anymore?  :-\
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: oleg on February 25, 2019, 10:34:57 AM
First they are available from Berliner Zinnfiguren. And of course you can buy them at Kulmbach Bourse this August. I hope Hans will again participate in this show.Oleg
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: merlino on February 25, 2019, 02:10:41 PM
thanks !    ;)
Title: Re: Crécy and Tannenberg series
Post by: mumobenny on February 26, 2019, 05:45:25 AM
Where is usually the stand of Swann at Kulmbach ?