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Flat Figures Painters Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mark Cunnington on March 18, 2021, 02:14:14 AM

Title: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Mark Cunnington on March 18, 2021, 02:14:14 AM
All,
Hannibal very kindly sent me some figures and I’d like to learn from you via this forum. I’m starting on a trumpeter from the Gendarmerie d’Elite as his uniform is relatively simple with large areas of cloth. I’m not ready for a hussar yet!
I’ve primed and under-painted him with acrylics (foundry, Vallejo and games workshop). I intend to use oils mainly but will use acrylics for small details (epaulettes etc.). I’m yet to get used to shading and highlighting with acrylics.
I’ve used oils for round figures in the past but I think light and shadow has to be more accentuated for flats?
On reading the Art of the Flat Tin Figure I see that oils can be thinned very slightly. I’ve never thinned oils before. Does it work?


This may take a while as I work for the emergency services and don’t get much time off at the moment. Any help and advice is appreciated.


Stay safe


Mark
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Hannibal on March 18, 2021, 06:44:37 AM
Dear Mark,


The best advices I could give you besides the Bible of Flat painting of Mike Taylor, is to read the outstanding step-by-step painting of Hina and Tinirau that Nick described in three BFFS magazines last two years, 132, 133, 137 and 137.


You can present also your painting progresses here and receive advices from us all on a constructive way. This is how I improved my painting too through Forum help and advices, and shows and verbal advices from good painters in from of my works and mistakes.....  No shame, just helps to climb step by step this motivating ladder with the will: "each new painting will be better than the previous one and what I learned from them".


M.
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Ed Humphreys on March 18, 2021, 01:32:06 PM
Welcome, Mark.
As a general principal, paint stronger shadows and highlights than you think is necessary. Most reformed (converted?) painters of solid figures tend to be too timid. You need to exaggerate to bring out the full depth.
Ed H
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: PJDeluhery on March 19, 2021, 01:07:10 PM
In reply to your question, Mark, oils can be thinned quite a bit using either a medium, mineral spirits or turpentine. I usually thin oils to about the consistency of skimmed milk. Sometimes it takes two or three coats to get the desired coverage, but you have better control and more pleasing results. Nothing worse than a thick coat of paint on a figure. FWIW, this was the hardest thing for me to learn as an oils painter. I know there is a technique in which you put the oil on without thinning it (straight from the tube) and then brush off the excess. If you're used to working that way, I guess it's worth a try. I could never make it work. The good news is that if your paint is too thin, you can always put on another coat. If its too thick, - not much you can do. So don't be afraid of thinning it out.

Welcome to the forum and good luck in your painting.
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: marko on March 19, 2021, 02:19:40 PM
Fellow Mark there is a nice collection articles in the Knowledgebase section of the Members only portion of the site relevant to oil/acrylic painting figures.  You also might wander through the SBS section of the site as well and there some good examples there as well.  (I am very partial to Daniel Canet's write up - Painting in Vidid Colors".


The other interesting difference you are dealing with is painting large flats - as you are - are also a bit more of a challenge to adapt to coming from larger rounds.  However, the larger flats are the most popular now as well and as such you have many more example articles to choose from so there is a plus.


My best painting advice is to chose a well engraved figure to start with as that seems to get everything off on the correct basis.  Have fun and good luck!  (It looks like you are doing a Quadri Concept figure which qualifies nicely as a well designed and engraved.)


mark  8)
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: marko on March 19, 2021, 03:12:17 PM
Also here is a semi-famous example by Peter Ferk way back in 2001 for the Chicago Show.  It was notable because as I recall the second version was done using only sepia paint.


[attach=1]
[attach=2]


mark  8)
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Mark Cunnington on March 20, 2021, 06:38:15 AM
In reply to your question, Mark, oils can be thinned quite a bit using either a medium, mineral spirits or turpentine. I usually thin oils to about the consistency of skimmed milk. Sometimes it takes two or three coats to get the desired coverage, but you have better control and more pleasing results. Nothing worse than a thick coat of paint on a figure. FWIW, this was the hardest thing for me to learn as an oils painter. I know there is a technique in which you put the oil on without thinning it (straight from the tube) and then brush off the excess. If you're used to working that way, I guess it's worth a try. I could never make it work. The good news is that if your paint is too thin, you can always put on another coat. If its too thick, - not much you can do. So don't be afraid of thinning it out.

Welcome to the forum and good luck in your painting.




Thank you,
Thinning oils is really new to me then as I used them from the tube previously. Does thinning allow for slow blending still? Do oils still take ages to dry whilst thinned.
I first started using oils 30 years ago and I'm pleased to be still learning!


Mark
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Ed Humphreys on March 20, 2021, 08:34:14 AM
I have always used W &N's Liquin as a medium. Take the oil paint down to a thin constituency, almost like milk. It will usually be touch dry and ready for another wash, if necessary, in 24 hours. It is very useful for glazing, giving subtle nuances of colour to a base coat.
Experiment and have fun.
Ed H
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: PJDeluhery on March 20, 2021, 11:39:02 PM
Thinning will still allow you to slowly blend.

If anything, thinning may speed drying, though I'll defer to Ed on that one because I dry my figures in a crock pot overnight. 

I too learn something from every figure I paint. It's one of the joys of painting for me. Never gets old.
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Mark Cunnington on April 05, 2021, 01:24:36 PM
It's been a while due to work and then half term holidays but I managed to paint the red coat this weekend. I know I should have started on the face but I liked the reds so much I just had to paint them.
I decided the light source would be upper right (as you are viewing the figure) so he is looking towards the light. I used Cadmium red medium with shadows in Alizarin Crimson and highlights in Cadmium red light. I thinned the base coat down for the first time ever using oils and it initially went on well followed by removal of excess with a soft brush. However, I think I used too much thinner for the shadows etc. as they ran into each other. Should I have let the base dry first?
I then used un-thinned paint for the shadows/highlights and it worked a little better. I am definitely too subtle in highlighting still. That's down to painting too many round figures over the years. Live and learn.



Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: marko on April 05, 2021, 01:36:19 PM
Very nice start on this with a color that is difficult at the best of times - reds. 


As a member you might also look in the knowledgeable section and an article by Daniel Canet called Painting in Vivid Colors.  He has some examples of the type of thinking and approach I think you are going for on this and has an approach that would deal with your colors running into each other, e.g. like you i paint wet-on-wet and sometimes have this issues well.  Daniel blocks in everything side-by-side which works around this and helps make his colors pop.  As you are doing a large scale figure this may work for you.


mark  8)
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: PJDeluhery on April 06, 2021, 01:06:29 PM
Your shadows and highlights may require a second or even third coat to get them to the right values. Especially for Alizarin Crimson which is semi transparent.
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Mark Cunnington on April 11, 2021, 05:16:36 AM
Thank you for that guys. I had a long week of duty so the figure had dried before I added a further set of shadows and highlights and I like the effect. The picture may not do it justice and I may tinker with a further set...
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: shogun on April 11, 2021, 06:21:09 AM
The "Red" looks great!
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: PJDeluhery on April 12, 2021, 03:03:06 PM
Yes, the red is looking good! Keep it up.   8)
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Mark Cunnington on May 11, 2021, 03:57:51 PM
After quite a break (work got very busy) I made a start on the hat. Instead of painting a base colour and laying on the shade/highlights I tried three mixes to lay next to each other and blend. It was harder work and it got a bit mixed up but I see that is a good technique. I'm beginning to get more confident in being less subtle in highlights.
I also soaked away the oil on cardboard and used liquin for the first time. I thought I was experienced in using oils but this made a massive difference. I'm looking forward to the next stage (hat lace and the face) although I think my next sets of days off are about to be cancelled. Damn.
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Hannibal on May 12, 2021, 04:20:53 AM
Very good start, Mark, with the hat, in giving light and shadows, and therefore volume, tri-dimensional effect.  Also the white lining at the top edge of the hat, where light usually makes a spot and gives shape to a dark surface.


1. Don't be shy to increase your light more (exagerate a bit), you can always revert after, to make it visible enough = a black suit can be painted dark grey, not black, to be able to paint shadows black and highlights amost white = see shiny boots for example on paintings of great masters.
2. Don't nécéssairily put your light source in the plan of the flat, sideways on the left of the character, but more upfront, to avoid having to paint a character half lightened on the right and half black on the right, and edges only on the right side.  By bringing your light source in your right back (niot totally in your back = flash effect), the lightening on the hat will not be at the edge, but 1/3 to the right, then against darker at the edge. On this way you will also give light lightening to the left side of the hat, flat surface, therefor volume !


3. Use black for shadows, and grey, dark grey as basecolour, On this manner you can bring highlinghts and also shadows and shape your painting in volume.  It gives you more freedom in painting volume....


Cheers ...
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Mark Cunnington on May 18, 2021, 03:27:54 PM
I’ve made a few adjustments to the hat but I feel I should have used Payne’s Grey. I used warm grey and I really don’t like the shade it gives. Hindsight is such a good thing.
The trousers are French ultramarine and I remembered why I dislike that colour so much. It’s not opaque enough despite a blue undercoat. Finally the highlights are more obvious than I’m used to but I’m quite pleased.
I really think the use of light and shade is the real skill in flat figures and one which I need to develop and learn more.
I will return to this and do one last set of light and shade. It always seems better when I walk away and come back to something I’m painting.
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Nicholas Ball on May 18, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Hi Mark, looking good so far. You can add brown or red to grey to give variations of the colour. I have even added yellow ochre- ( this also applies to black as below )
To make a full 3 D effect, when you add the next shadows make the rear of the figure ‘s areas slightly darker to the front.
Coming back to a figure always helps, the other thing is to reverse the photo- this tricks the eye into thinking you are looking at someone else’s work. 
To make a transparent colour like ultra marine more opaque you need to mix an opaque colour to it. For highlight it’s white, for shadows it’s either a raw umber to give a brown tint or Ivory black to keep it blue.
To make black more interesting, especially if you are painting a black figure, add green, brown, purple etc to it- when white is added it will take on the added colour and that way various blacks can be made, which on jackets and trousers just gives a different tone to each for interest.
Looking forward to seeing the next stage.     
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Mark Cunnington on May 31, 2021, 01:47:01 PM
Although I worked part of the weekend and had the dreaded lawn to cut I managed to have some time on this. The waistcoat and belt are coming along but a second attempt is always needed. That’s a major lesson I’ve learned. I do not like yellow. It is he’s even with acrylics and their covering power. The white lace is quite bright. I’ll tone it down but I like the brightness. I’ve learned and re-learned a lot about oils and this has reignited my love for them. Two new Kolinsky sables brushes are on their way as I’ve been using brushes that have had a lot of acrylic usage.
Now I need to fully understand the use of light and shade.
I must say I am loving flats and I’m already looking to my next one!
The next step is the metallic brass. Any hints?
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Mark Cunnington on June 06, 2021, 05:48:24 AM
Today I worked on the boots and scabbard. Thank you for your advice Nicholas and Hannibal. I used a dark grey as a base (with burnt sienna added, a nice touch) and it looks better. It’s different to the hat although the photo doesn’t really show that.
My use of light and shadow is an area I need to work on still as it is not consistent. That’s probably the most complex area of flats. I m pleased with my improving oil techniques. I’ve also bought some decent Kolinsky sable brushes and they make a big difference. I won’t be using them to paint acrylics!
As is usual I will go back to this tomorrow to touch up. I walk away before I get too picky as it often spoils things.
Metallics, straps and flesh to go.
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Mark Cunnington on June 15, 2021, 01:17:14 PM
I think I’m coming to the end of this. The Brass was done using Games Workshop paints. I’ve also done some other metallics (one button is a bit of a mess and needs redoing). I struggled with the face as I’m not great with faces. Flesh ochre, white and burnt sienna work well as a flesh mix with some crimson on the lips. His eyebrows need toning down though! As usual I’ll return and tweak it. All that’s left is some straps and cords and a few small details. Then I think I’ll mount it.
Time isn’t on my side as I start 16 weeks of study for promotion next week.
I reckon I’ll continue on a new figure just to help unwind....
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Hannibal on June 15, 2021, 02:00:54 PM
My Gosh Mark, You've painted a velvet red and blue  I"ve never been able to paint with oil, nor acrylic paint, so rich and magnificient !!
Good recovery also of the boots, although your should not be so shy in using black and dark.


The face = you have the base colours in use, which needs to be improved is the sculpering of the face, and give more details to the eyes, but skin, reddness in lips and face are present.


I must congratulate you for this first flat, undertaken with a lot of tenacity, time, never given up.
Time to stop and keep in your museum anyway, and learn from this one for the next ones.
It is important to set objectives and not willing to reach the prfection on the first time, because you would never finish it and still remain unstatisfied.  I find this first work VERY good and nice and congratulates you !!!


The progression will be motivating, and welcome to the club of the flat painters now, thanks ti this first work!


Michel
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Mark Cunnington on August 19, 2021, 08:48:05 AM
I'm calling this done. The summer has delayed my final bits but I like the use of picture frames for flats. Round figures are not so easy and take up more room.
I'm not happy with the face so watch the next instalment (I've yet to decide what).


In the meantime, thank you for all your help guys.


Stay safe
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: John Alberts on August 19, 2021, 08:57:12 AM
Looks good in the frame with nameplate.  Very nice painting.  Yes, flats take up much less space!
Title: Re: New Build - New to Flat Figures
Post by: Ed Humphreys on August 19, 2021, 01:40:37 PM
Not when you have over fifty boxed dioramas!
Ed