Author Topic: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten  (Read 1691 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Christian

  • Member
  • ***
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2020, 03:42:20 AM »
Very nice metal!!!


BG Christian
Christian, Kettwig (Germany)
Privatoffizin Kettwiger Zinnfiguren / Kettwiger tin figures

marko

  • Administrator
  • *****
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2020, 03:21:26 PM »
Actually it is a lesser known historical fact that the fighting spirit of the Duke of Somerset and his trusty steed Flat-Iron were not sated by death and they showed up my in many battles through history, last being seen at the Battle of Midway in 1942 where appearing in a sea battle in armor on a horse may have been a spectral appearance too far as he has not been seen since.

(It is amazing if one ignores facts as we are prone to do these days how interesting history becomes...)

This is a pretty fascinating story when one uses just the known facts as well.  Thanks for sharing.

mark  8)
Site Admin

tinman

  • Member
  • ***
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2020, 03:03:29 PM »
For those interested in the legend of the Duke of Somerset, I attach a copy of an article from the journal, Medieval Warfare, and a link to the author's blog:


http://www.jcbrunner.info/hist/1476_morat_somerset.html

snagy

  • Member
  • ***
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2020, 01:14:50 PM »
Thank you for the explanations Gentlemen!
@Eric: the attached picture makes the layouts of the c.o.a.-s on the differents sides prefectly clear. That was new for me!!
Take care of your health-
Sandor

Christoph

  • Associate
  • **
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2020, 12:48:57 PM »
I do some research on the net.
A book called "Der Geschichten der Schweizer Eidgenossenschaft fünfter Teil" by Johann von Müller in 1826 mentioned a Duke of Somerset at Murten. But it is not clear which person this was. Edmund was killed at Tewkesbury in 1471 as Ed Humphreys mentioned below. His brother Henry died at Windsor in 1526. There was a third brother called Thomas of who was told that he died young and unmarried, maybe at Murten.

Sadly there is no good and detailed modern book about Murten (if you know one please let me know).


A fact is that many English served in the Burgundian army of Charles the below. Charles make much use of the longbow which was a favourite weapon of the Englich footsoldier at that period.
Charles was married to Margaret of York, the sister of the English king Eduard IV., so there where closed connections between England and Burgundy at that time.

Christoph 



errant49

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2020, 12:21:07 PM »
Hi Sandor
I join a scheme which shows the rules to be followed in Heraldic
And yes, allways look forward !
Eric

snagy

  • Member
  • ***
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2020, 11:54:31 AM »
@ Ed: At least on the Panorama Murten picture he (see in the centre of the below screenshot) seemed to be in quite bad shape...
Maybe this occasion he really and irrevocably died...    :'(


@Michel:  About the heraldry: do you mean that the lions/leopards look forward both sides of the flag??
This case is quite a simple layout, but e.g. in case of a more sophisticated coat of arms it would look quite strange if the layout on the two sides of the banner would be not the same! So in my approach the very same layout on one side should look forward and the other side of the banner should look backward. Am I wrong?


Sandor

Ed Humphreys

  • Member
  • ***
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2020, 11:12:22 AM »
I wonder if the dead Duke of Somerset survived the Battle of Murten?

Christoph

  • Associate
  • **
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2020, 10:47:18 AM »
Hello Sandor,
as you see medival heraldic is a very dangerous thing...
I personally prefer painted armour but yours look fine!
A very nice figure!
Christoph

Hannibal

  • Member
  • ***
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2020, 10:34:15 AM »

…. and I guess that the lions are oriented the wrong way on the flag.


I've been trapped some years ago also during a contest for heraldic 'inaccuracies', forcing me to make careful investigations are read the rules for some time..


One learns every day, and the purpose of our forum is guidance, helping too to become better and stronger

Michel
_______
Men are a bit like God: everything they can do, they do it. Or they will do it.  (Jean d'Ormesson)

snagy

  • Member
  • ***
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2020, 10:07:46 AM »

Ed has perfectly right concerning the alleged participation of Duke of Somerset on the Murten-battle.
Yes, one can hardly took part on the battle 5 years after one's own death.
However he is depicted on the Murten-panorama https://www.murtenpanorama.ch/spezial/zoomify/index_de.php and I took the idea from there.
You know: creative freedom ... :P
Take care-
Sandor





Ed Humphreys

  • Member
  • ***
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2020, 09:38:39 AM »
Some sources claim the Duke of Somerset was at Murten, but Edmund, Duke of Somerset was killed at Tewkesbury in 1471. His arms would have been the royal arms, the three leopards of England quartered with the three fleurs de lys of France, within a border alternately blue and white. The dukedom of Somerset did not exist in 1476 until it was resurrected by Henry VII

zinnmartina

  • Associate
  • **
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2020, 08:05:53 AM »
Great painting and looks very good.


Did not know that any english were at Murten.

Hannibal

  • Member
  • ***
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2020, 04:56:04 AM »

Thanks Sandor for your detailed explanations, quiet sophisticated and seemingly effective …


Need to get some of the products and … try.  But shops are closed for three weeks more at present …. (only food and gardening).
Michel
_______
Men are a bit like God: everything they can do, they do it. Or they will do it.  (Jean d'Ormesson)

errant49

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
Re: Ensign of Herzog von Summerset bei Murten
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2020, 03:35:21 AM »
Man's armor is very well done, you've got it !
Eric


PS : not convinced by the decals  :-\